I have seen both on Craigslist for a price I could easily afford, but don't know much about them. I have driven a 500 Abarth years ago, but never even touched a Boxster. Can anyone convince me that I should get one or the other, or that they would both be a total disaster? If I did buy one I would have 1-2 other cars to drive if needed, but also probably wouldn't keep it long if it took over ~$400/month in maintenance and repairs (which I would do myself to the extent I am able to).
One of FWD, kinda cheap and, from what I read (haven't driven one) a riot. The other is a mid engine RWD German scalpel. Totally different. The Boxsters are generally reliable, the Foats are mixed from what I gather. If you don't need to depend on it there isn't much to lose. Drive them and pick the winner!
The only downside to the boxster is it might leave you with the desire to upgrade to a nicer, newer posche. At least that's what happened to me.
More seriously, if you get one that's been roughly kept up on maintenance and driven regularly, it's not any more unreliable then any other late 90s car. A few parts are expensive, but mostly it's not any more expensive aside from needing twice as much oil as most cars. For the most part they're not nearly as hard to work on as you'd expect.
While Boxsters are generally reliable, they have a few issues, and cheap ones may not have received the regular maintenance they need. They're the perfect example why you want to buy the best one you can afford.
The problem isn't so much the regular amounts you need to budget for maintenance, it's when things go wrong. At that point I'd hazard a guess that the Fiat would be much cheaper to fix as the Porker still commands Porsche parts prices.
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:While Boxsters are generally reliable, they have a few issues, and cheap ones may not have received the regular maintenance they need. They're the perfect example why you want to buy the best one you can afford.
Good point, I would be looking in the under 6k range if I did that, beyond that I would rather have something other than a Boxster for the price. There is one for $2900 listed now but I am definitely not that brave lol.
I found some info on both over on Classic Motorsports, I hope they help:
Bonus reading since it's somewhat related:
I have never driven a boxster, so I cannot comment on them. I do have a 2012 500 Abarth though. I don't know what to say about reliability, mine only has 18,000 miles on it and has needed nothing but a set of tyres, oil, and gas.
If you drive one in anger, the Stability Management is going to keep your behind safe. they are a short wheelbase car with quite a bit of power for their weight, and very little of that weight is on the rear wheels. Turn in is instant and on a bumpy road, the rear is going to want to swap with the front if not for the Stability Control. Yes, it is that good.
It is also a car that will bring out your inner hooligan. It's cute, it's adorable, and it's downright obnoxious all at the same time. It pops, it burbles, it hums going down the road, and it wants to play even if you don't. The few porsche's I have been in can play too, but it's more of a "if you insist" as compared to the puppy on crack that is the Abarth.
I've never driven an Abarth, but I have driven a standard 500. It thought it was fun and I'm sure the Abarth takes it to the next level. I have to admit, I'd be worried about reliability on a higher mile version, but that's just a holdover from the old days of Fiat.
I have owned my 97 Boxster for the past six years (purchased at 130k, currently at 165k) and until this year it has been one the most reliable cars I've owned. Now I'm chasing little things like bad injectors, new MAF, etc, which is a bit annoying. But, it's an absolute blast, whether daily driving, canyon driving, autocrossing, or date night. It really is a good car!
'99 Boxster owner here. Car has been nothing but reliable, I've ended up liking the convertible aspect more than I expected, handling is unbelievable, parts have been cheaper than expected, motor sounds glorious.... About the only downside is the hundred horsepower it's missing compared to my 911. I understand the Fiats have their appeal, but you couldn't pay me to trade the Boxster for one.
Relevant to my interests. I'm seeing quite a few with something like 40k for 8k. I'm also cross shopping with really depreciated stuff like an early Boxster, and then something in between like a Solstice GXP. I'm nice day dailying a 140k mile Jag XKR, and I'd like to get something lower mileage and lighter of foot, and stick.
In my quick research, the one thing I've seen come up is Multiair brick failure which causes low/no compression and misfires. Fiesta STs are similarly priced now, and similar in intent, but the Abarth just has a coolness to it the FiST doesn't to me.
white_fly said:'99 Boxster owner here. Car has been nothing but reliable, I've ended up liking the convertible aspect more than I expected, handling is unbelievable, parts have been cheaper than expected, motor sounds glorious.... About the only downside is the hundred horsepower it's missing compared to my 911. ...
I love the '99s best and miss THIS (glad that you are enjoying it Patrick). For blasting down the back roads they have plenty of power to have fun. It is not a drag car, but if you have twisty roads and enjoy running up and down through the gears to make beautiful music, a first generation Boxster is the way to go.
Mrs AAZCD and I took our '99s (THIS and THAT) to Hallett for some track time and loved it. These cars like to be driven to the edge.
If you do buy one, make sure that it has been maintained with frequent oil changes and be prepared to refresh the suspension if it hasn't been done. Having a Porsche shop do a pre-purchase inspection may be well worth the money if you are not very familiar with them.
I have a '01 Boxster S that I have owned for couple of years. I looked for several years before buying one as sometimes finding a good example is difficult. In the end I picked one up with just over 50k miles, one owner with records. It is now at 60k and needs the first repairs under my ownership.
The water pump pulley has play and a CV boot is ripped. Thats it. The water pump looks fairly straight forward and you can replace belts and pulleys while you are there, and I will go ahead and do the spark plugs and tubes as maintenance. I have made multiple long trips in it and it is a great car. Parts don't appear to be too bad, and working on it is easier than you might believe for some things.
On track is where my boxster really surprised me. I was actually laughing as I came off track after the first session because there's no way something that cheap and totally stock other than wheels and tires should be anywhere near as fast or as fun as it was. It did melt down the clutch later in the day...but at that point it had 135k of various different types of abuse on it, it was just its time. Other than that, it had some deferred maintenance that I had to catch up on when I got it, but that was pretty much it. The alternator died which is a surprisingly easy job to replace, and it had a weird one off immobilizer issue which was fixed by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes and never happened again. It's a flat engine tucked up in the middle of the car, but access is surprisingly good (and better than on newer boxster/Cayman models). I'd do spark plugs on a 986 over a Subaru every time.
I guess Ill swing back around and share my experience.
My '01 has been pretty good to me so far. Ive only put about 10k miles (91k total) on it but that includes a track day and many many canyon runs. The only non-maintenance item I have had to do was the MAF. I think it was $150 on RA. Oh and strut bearings. Everything else has been normal maintenance.
If you do end up with one, youll spend the first week or two panicking every time it makes a new noise. Dont worry, they make a ton of odd noises but its often not anything to worry about. One of the podcasts I listen to described mid-engined cars as having the engine in the car with you. Its true, but youll get used to it. If it does bother you, you can put sound deadening on the removable panel on the firewall to cut down alot of it.
They're fantastic value right now.
I can only speak for the fun aspect the cars as I've driven multiple examples of both.
The Boxster is the more stable of the two but I would not call the Fiat unstable or having a propensity for oversteer.
With a 90 inch wheelbase the Fiat is quite chuckable and has good outward visions
End of the day the Porsche is really nicely balanced and a nicer place to be in my opinion.
99 Boxster here. The same as what has already been stated. Love it. It doesn't get driven as a daily, purely for thrashing around on back country roads. It's potential is a bit much for the road - it's really engineered for track speeds. Just buy smart. I bought impulsively but lucked out.
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:white_fly said:'Having a Porsche shop do a pre-purchase inspection may be well worth the money if you are not very familiar with them.
Quoted for truth. The IMS issue isn't as common as it would seem from the internet but it happens enough to matter, leaving you with a $10k car that needs a $20k motor.
Tom1200 said:I can only speak for the fun aspect the cars as I've driven multiple examples of both.
The Boxster is the more stable of the two but I would not call the Fiat unstable or having a propensity for oversteer.
With a 90 inch wheelbase the Fiat is quite chuckable and has good outward visions
End of the day the Porsche is really nicely balanced and a nicer place to be in my opinion.
Only from the front. view out the rear quarters is miserable. Those small windows might as well not be there.
In reply to mad_machine (Forum Supporter) :
Watsa behind me eesa a no problem.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:white_fly said:'Having a Porsche shop do a pre-purchase inspection may be well worth the money if you are not very familiar with them.
Quoted for truth. The IMS issue isn't as common as it would seem from the internet but it happens enough to matter, leaving you with a $10k car that needs a $20k motor.
Is it an issue that can be fixed (before it fails) or prevented with maintainance? Or is it just a matter of luck whether they fail or not. It seems like most modern Porsches have a pretty high rate of engine failures, so that's the thing I am most concerned about with those. It seems like they are readily available for $5500 (I even saw one for $2950 that said it was running and driving) but I am not sure if those are ones that someone is just trying to make it someone elses probably before it dies or not.
In reply to Tk8398 :
You can get replacement/upgraded IMS bearings that are supposed to "fix" the issue. Probably safest to treat that bearing as a consumable, especially on a track car. And you really want to replace the bearing before it fails.
It's also not the only problem that these engines - especially the early ones - have. There's the infamous D chunk failure that seems to mostly affect Boxsters and not 996s, the timing chain guides can disintegrate (especially if the oil hasn't been changed at much shorter intervals than factory) and that's a fun one to fix give how deep you need to dig into the engine to get at them.
And yes, Porsche seems to delight in building engines that have a built in point of failure, not only the modern ones.
spandak said:The Boxsters are generally reliable, the Fiats are mixed from what I gather.
Yeah, the Fiats seem to be a case of you either get a really good one or a really bad one. My friend Chris beats the living daylights out of his, tracks it frequently and is not gentle on it and it rarely gives him trouble. My other friend Scott had one he bought new, and he did some HPDEs and autocrosses with it here and there and his was frequently broken. The shifter was always kind of weird and the transmission would get stuck in gear, it wiped all the keys out of the BCM once and required having a new BCM and keys programmed to it, it threw intermittent check engine lights here, there and everywhere.
In reading more about them, it seems like a lot of the Fiats needed a new transmission around 30k miles, and the multiair unit can be an issue if it didn't have the right oil changed often, and is about a $2500 (parts and tools) repair which ends up being 1/3-1/4 the cost of the whole car.
One note on the IMS bearings in the Porsches as the rabbit hole is deeeeep; find a car thats been regularly driven and had regular oil changes. The manual calls for 10k mile changes I think, but thats a bad idea. 5k seems to be a good number. If its had regular oil changes, isnt an auto, and has been driven regularly (and hopefully with enthusiasm) its likely to be fine. The failure rate for the worst case cars (~01-05) was 8%. My car falls into that, runs fine at 91k miles. YMMV and all that, but theres tons of these around and many on original engines owned by people who wouldnt know an IMS bearing if it came in through the window.
They can, and probably should be, changed. Personally, Im probably not going to worry about it. My car was $7k and an IMS kit is approaching $1k and while youre in there you might as well do the RMS and the clutch and thats another 1k... nope. Not worth spend 25% of the cost of the car doing preventative maintenance. If it needs a clutch already... maybe. Not that anyone asked, but thats my logic.
Tk8398 said:ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:white_fly said:'Having a Porsche shop do a pre-purchase inspection may be well worth the money if you are not very familiar with them.
Quoted for truth. The IMS issue isn't as common as it would seem from the internet but it happens enough to matter, leaving you with a $10k car that needs a $20k motor.
Is it an issue that can be fixed (before it fails) or prevented with maintainance? Or is it just a matter of luck whether they fail or not. It seems like most modern Porsches have a pretty high rate of engine failures, so that's the thing I am most concerned about with those. It seems like they are readily available for $5500 (I even saw one for $2950 that said it was running and driving) but I am not sure if those are ones that someone is just trying to make it someone elses probably before it dies or not.
The early 2.5Ls are the most robust and also used engines are pretty cheap. I wouldn't bother doing the IMS unless you're in there to do the clutch anyway. Buy cheap, run it. Worst case it blows up and either you part out the big items to get most of your money back and walk away, or put a $1500 junkyard engine in it and run it another 100k.
Porsche had some rough times in the early and mid-2000s, but everything since '09 has been pretty much bulletproof.
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