With all the crapcan racing, lemons, chumpcar, ect.., which are all production based, why not have a low budget endurance series that is for open wheel cars? I realize most of them are not equipped for night races, but then again most endurance races are 7 hours. When I see that people are spending $4k plus on their Lemons, Chumpcar, ect...and see Vee's and F500 for a couple of grand, I think it would be cool if there was a endurance series for them.
I would think the chances for mayhem are much higher with open wheelers, as they tend to be a lot faster than the cars that usually run in LeMons/Chumpcar.
They also have a bad failure mode when inexperienced drivers come together.
It is a good question, though - overall, you don't see a lot of open wheel endurance series.
I think it takes a bigger dose of crazy to run an open wheeled car in an enduro. Just imagine being buffeted by wind, extreme vibration, extreme noise levels, sun, rain, etc, for hours at a time. (I would totally do this, but I'm younger and stupider than most lemons/chumpcar guys I know) 
Also, driver changes become quite a bit more involved. I would think it's not as easy to adjust seat position, pedals, harnesses etc as in a production-based car.
Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick part.
In reply to nocones:
Chumpcar is pretty non-gimmicky. You just need to build your car to the rules, like any other competitive class.
I competed in a 4-hour kart enduro this past weekend:
https://dupagepads.ejoinme.org/MyEvents/Drivefor75/tabid/533694/Default.aspx
Not quite the same as a Vee or F500, but still a ton of fun for not much $$. Endurance Karting has been running races for years if it's something you're interested in.
http://endurancekarting.com/index.php/ek-home-new
Keep in mind---- racing in a kart, even for a 30 minute session--- is much, much more punishing than racing in a car. It will beat you up--- but you'll be grinning!
nocones wrote: Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick part
http://www.worldracingleague.org/
Joe Gearin wrote: I competed in a 4-hour kart enduro this past weekend: https://dupagepads.ejoinme.org/MyEvents/Drivefor75/tabid/533694/Default.aspx Not quite the same as a Vee or F500, but still a ton of fun for not much $$. Endurance Karting has been running races for years if it's something you're interested in. http://endurancekarting.com/index.php/ek-home-new Keep in mind---- racing in a kart, even for a 30 minute session--- is much, much more punishing than racing in a car. It will beat you up--- but you'll be grinning!
I currently race karts and have done some endurancekarting with them as well as at my home track. It is a blast, I ran a 2 hour kart race by myself only stopping for fuel, but wondered why not open wheel at the big track.
nocones wrote: Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick part.
Sounds like you're describing ChumpCar. There's no gimmick in it, other than maybe the naming.
In reply to btp76:
Yes on this.
Joey Todd, who previously managed the central region of ChumpCar, developed this series for exactly the reasons you mention. No gimmicks. Classes based on power to weight ratio, all running at the same time. We have run multiple Lemons and Chump races. We switched to World Racing League this year and after running the Brainerd race we are glad we did. I think this series will have much more appeal to the person more interested in racing than theatrics. Don't get me wrong, we had great fun at Lemons, and it has it's own appeal to just go out and have fun. But to go out and race, WRL is a better option for us. There was a '99 Corvette racing at Brainerd and there is at least one Porsche Boxster signed up for Mid America Motorplex, along with a number of chump teams and some SCCA and NASA cars. The appeal of the various classes is that even the lower powered cars which never had a chance in Chump can race and be competitive within their class.
Formula cars tend to be built towards a sprint format.
Fuel capacity for one thing, many are not set up at all for rapid refueling.
It takes more effort to get a driver situated in a formula car usually.
Formula cars tend to be more fragile. Meaning, break more parts and not be rapid fixes.
At least those are the things that strike me as reasons why not.
Would be awesome to see!
^What he said^
I race a sports racer which runs in the SCCA "Wings n'Things" catch-all group. Locally this includes:
...And I may have missed some. In any case, these are finicky, deceptively complex cars and they're worked on continuously between track sessions. Strapping the driver in often requires help and takes 10 minutes minimum. Fuel capacity is just enough for a Majors race. At Summit that's 25 laps or 50 miles.
And (again, using Summit as the yardstick) the speed differential is huge from the slowest to fastest. At the last race there were rookies in FV and CF cars doing 1'30"+ while I was repeatedly breaking the P2 track record ending up w/ a 1'13.312".
I lapped the 2 slow guys 3 times in 18 laps.
In short, open wheel enduro is not the thing for amateurs.
I think a field of old NASCAR road course cars would be awesome though.
500 miles seems pretty darned far.
AugustusGloop wrote: In reply to btp76: Yes on this. Joey Todd, who previously managed the central region of ChumpCar, developed this series for exactly the reasons you mention. No gimmicks. Classes based on power to weight ratio, all running at the same time.
I really hope this series takes off. I've crossed paths with Joey when he was working at TWS, and he's a great guy that really loves grassroots racing.
BoxheadTim wrote: I would think the chances for mayhem are much higher with open wheelers, as they tend to be a *lot* faster than the cars that usually run in LeMons/Chumpcar.
Keith Tanner wrote: They also have a bad failure mode when inexperienced drivers come together. It is a good question, though - overall, you don't see a lot of open wheel endurance series.
I would be very cautious running in an open wheeled class with the amount of contact that seems typical at lemons and chump car.
GameboyRMH wrote:nocones wrote: Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick part.Sounds like you're describing ChumpCar. There's no gimmick in it, other than maybe the naming.
So the winning cars are genuinely worth only $500?
Driven5 wrote:GameboyRMH wrote:So the winning cars are genuinely worth only $500?nocones wrote: Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick part.Sounds like you're describing ChumpCar. There's no gimmick in it, other than maybe the naming.
Haha. That's funny right there.
Could always Enduro with a dwarf car. They're cheap, indestructible, and can be setup for appropriate fuel range.You can get a meh 600cc circle track setup one for a couple grand then spend another few hundred getting some new front knuckles to make it turn both ways. Class limit is 1250cc there's plenty of liter bikes that are balls of metal and plastic that still have good engines you could drop in. Structure the endurance series to have 2 classes 1250cc limit and 610cc limit and let em rip on the road courses, give the 610s either street tires or require the normal dwarf spec tire, and give the 1250s the unlimited wheel width and tire choice, or give them a spec american racer slick.
Thanks unevolved. But my wife might not agree 
I don't think there is a demand among open wheel pilots for endurance racing. I'm sure reasons range from cost to run, to "no room for a cool shirt system"
nocones said: Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick part.
That's exactly what we did with World Racing League. No gimmicky names, no arbitrary $500 budgets, no penalties for building a race car, no games, no pure novices. Power to weight-based classes, 16 page rulebook, prep limits that keep money in check. We take "no contact" seriously - contact not only being unsafe, but it also increases the cost of racing, and discourages people from participating. The result has been clean racing between a wide variety of cars, from PCA Spec Boxsters to Civics.
btp76 wrote:nocones wrote: Why not cheap non gimmick racing? Do lemons/chump but with classes and rules and just run on track at the same time like real endurance racing. I love the theory with lemons/chump but don't like the gimmick parthttp://www.worldracingleague.org/
+1 That's where I race now. Got tired of the Lemons carnival, ChumpCar was good, but the class system in WRL is better.
Leafy wrote: Could always Enduro with a dwarf car. They're cheap, indestructible, and can be setup for appropriate fuel range.You can get a meh 600cc circle track setup one for a couple grand then spend another few hundred getting some new front knuckles to make it turn both ways. Class limit is 1250cc there's plenty of liter bikes that are balls of metal and plastic that still have good engines you could drop in. Structure the endurance series to have 2 classes 1250cc limit and 610cc limit and let em rip on the road courses, give the 610s either street tires or require the normal dwarf spec tire, and give the 1250s the unlimited wheel width and tire choice, or give them a spec american racer slick.
I have actually looked into buying, but other series are not to interested in letting them run with cars. The rudimentary suspensions make them hard to setup and make them turn right.
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