Duke said:
wearymicrobe said:
Some of these were bought on multi year adjustable rate loans or have massive ballon payments as well. People thought they could drive for free or make some cash even in the middle or the road restored cars and got their teeth kicked in. Some of the % rates on loans I was seeing with ballons and small loan origination fees were nuts.
TIL that there are balloon mortgages for cars. And that the same kind of idiots that went for balloon mortgages apparently raised an even dumber generation of people who are willing to go for balloon auto loans.
Helps to think of them as tax avoidance loans/leases then actual balloons.
If I trade my exotic car in every say 1.5 years and live in a low tax state I can take the ballon loan pay the ar down quickly and trade in with my equity and upgrade at will. If I am in California its just a lease on paper that lets me only pay taxes on the depreciation that I am paying for and the ballon lets me keep the total payments low. IE it can work out on very high dollar cars where the cost of the lease origination is very small in comparison to the cost of the car.
This is not happening on the sub 100K loan's as far as I know, the lenders are decently smart here they have very little risk becasue they only do this on cars that drop in value at a very predictable rate like say a 458/488 where they hve lots of data and lots of buyers. Trust me they are setup so you do not want the lease/loan to end and they do not want the car back.
alfadriver said:
Why aren't people here able to be so much smarter than this guy to have so much money that they can blow that much money in a year? That's a good question, too. Where are the people to see the overheated economy and sell their stuff at the peak and buy it back at the bottom? If you didn't sell at the top and buy at the bottom, you lost this money, too.
Some of us are here. I sold all my toys during Covid and put off several planned purchases because prices were (obviously) too high.
But it's not obvious to everybody.
See also: mr2s2000elise' comment
In reply to Peabody :
In 2020 or 2021? Did you hit the actual peak, or just guess at it?
It's a guess, even if it's an educated guess.
And the fact that people here are going out of their way to call someone who is likely considerably more wealthy than they are dumb because they did this transaction, yea...
Strizzo said:
bmw88rider said:
And driving it is a loose term. 590 miles in 9 months. Another bubble out there that is popping.
I imagine some of that is them figuring out that old broncos ride like garbage and aren't much fun to drive on the road.
I put 5800 miles on my 72 while I built it to sell it. Was it as composed as my Land Cruisers? No where close. But the Bronco surely was fun. And the amount of attention get in a Bronco - nowhere close to a LC in Los Angeles.
STM317
PowerDork
1/5/23 12:01 p.m.
alfadriver said:
In reply to Peabody :
And the fact that people here are going out of their way to call someone who is likely considerably more wealthy than they are dumb because they did this transaction, yea...
Intelligent people make dumb choices sometimes. It's possible to say that this was a dumb choice without thinking anything about the person that made it.
alfadriver said:
In reply to Peabody :
In 2020 or 2021? Did you hit the actual peak, or just guess at it?
It's a guess, even if it's an educated guess.
And the fact that people here are going out of their way to call someone who is likely considerably more wealthy than they are dumb because they did this transaction, yea...
I sold some of my stuff in 20, some in 21, and even bought a few things when I thought the deal was right. But I also went without a car for 5 months for the same reason. But I certainly saw what was happening when it was happening, and hauled stuff out that I'd not used in years, and probably never would have. Did I nail the timing? It's not relevant. I made money, good money, that was the objective.
It's always a guess, preferably educated. But the education in the guess should be influenced by the evidence, and there was plenty of evidence that buying that truck for that money at that time was a bad idea. There was no shortage of people here who would have told you that buying anything on that site at that time was a bad idea, there were even threads on it. I'm thinking mostly they were right.
Do you know the guy or are you just making things up because you don't like what some people said about him? Equating wealth with intelligence is a very common logical fallacy.
Oh, and let's be clear. If he's wealthy like you think, he didn't make a bad decision, he made two bad decisions.
Yeah, wealth and intelligence are not synonymous.
his money his choices. i was gonna say "who gives a berkeley" but it's obvious that some do. question should be "why do you give a berkeley how someone else spends their money as long as theyre not spending it on something that hurts you."
and the obvious answer is because a sports car with a tarp is a pickup truck.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-ford-bronco-166/
$19800 loss in 6 months
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
Do you just watch Bronco auctions?
It would be interesting to see how many vehicles went through a second time at a loss. And we're not done. Prices haven't bottomed yet.
He gambled he'd make money on a asset. He didn't buy a truck, bought an investment. Berk those people.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
100%
None of your business.
Peabody said:
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
Do you just watch Bronco auctions?
It would be interesting to see how many vehicles went through a second time at a loss. And we're not done. Prices haven't bottomed yet.
I spend 3 hours a day watching auctions as I am a buyer first. I do follow the Broncos along with many other things. I sold my Bronco (thread is on this website) to a millenial weed farmer in S. Carolina for $127,000. He could probably sell it back today for 80K.
Cars bought in 21-22 (I sold 71 cars during that time) - if all resold today, per my math all but 3 of those cars would see a significant loss.
Something's not adding up here...
Either this is some kind of tax write off deal, or the guy needed cash way more than he needed to not lose cash.
The BAT buyer's fee tops out at $5000 for vehicles over $100,000. If it looks like he's not going to flip it for a profit, why wouldn't he just use another account to buy it from himself, pay BAT their five grand and save $30k?
He's either smart, stupid or desperate, but there's something else going on here.
I think there's a strong possibility that there's a divorce involved.
Of course it's also possible that he is, in fact, the new buyer.
dps214
SuperDork
3/9/23 12:24 p.m.
You're forgetting the other option that they're rich enough that they don't care about the money and just are bored of it and don't want to deal with it anymore.
Don't care about the money side of it.
perhaps the bronco wasn't as nice as it appeared, he could have been looking at a bunch of money to make it right and just decided to cut and run.
I've seen a number of reserve not met (RNM) at auction sites lately. I do hope this is a sign that rising interest rates are driving speculators and flippers out of the market and back towards more normal financial instruments. Purely for selfish reasons, I would like to see greater inventory, affordability, and options in vehicles available to car enthusiasts who are going to drive them, enjoy them, and not really care if they're profitable or not, vs "investors" sitting on everything like smaug on his hoard of gold. Hopefully it brings more of the fun back :).
alfadriver said:
This is the age old question of buying something due to the speculation of it increasing in value. Stocks, bonds, art, property, cars, etc.
Look at the rise and fall of non fungible tokens.
And I thought this thread was about Hertz renting new Broncos for $175 a day because they were now cooler than Shelby Mustangs.
It could happen.
dps214 said:
You're forgetting the other option that they're rich enough that they don't care about the money and just are bored of it and don't want to deal with it anymore.
And my money would be on this. A $20k loss in 6 months is fairly common in semi high dollar car buying/selling and can be irrelevant to the people in the game. It's the new people that got into the game in the last few years that might be worried at the moment.
