Christmas Carol Confusion

SVreX wrote: Santa Baby: Gold digger makes extremely expensive prostitution available to fat guy in a red suit. ... Wow. Greedy gold digger.

According to point number four, technically she's a Platinum digger.

wbjones wrote:

SVreX wrote: 12 Days of Christmas is weird. First off, there is 1 day of Christmas. Secondly, 364 gifts in 12 days is excessive by anyone's measure. Third, you can't own people, giving 140 of them to your true love is like transferring ownership to an entire plantation. Fourth, just what were the lords-a-leaping on? The ladies dancing? And what the berkeley is with all the birds? 184 birds? Is this some kind of kinky weird obsession? That's a heck of a lot of birdE36 M3. I think it's a pretty good recipe for guaranteeing that this relationship will not make it to New Year's day.

The song, "The Twelve Days of Christmas" is an English Christmas carol. From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics. It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of the Church. Each element in the carol has a code word for a religious reality which the children could remember. To fit the number scheme, when you reach number 9, representing the Fruits of the Holy Ghost, the originator combined 6 to make 3, taking the 6 fruits that were similar: the fruit in each parenthesis is the that was not named separately. There are actually Twelve Fruits of the Holy Ghost. The "True Love" one hears in the song is not a smitten boy or girlfriend but Jesus Christ, because truly Love was born on Christmas Day. The partridge in the pear tree also represents Him because that bird is willing to sacrifice its life if necessary to protect its young by feigning injury to draw away predators. According to Ann Ball in her book, HANDBOOK OF CATHOLIC SACRAMENTALS: The two turtle doves were the Old and New Testaments The three French hens stood for faith, hope, and love. The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The five golden rings rerepresented the first five books of the Old Testament, which describe man's fall into sin and the great love of God in sending a Savior. The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation. Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit-----Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy. The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes. Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit-----Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience [Forbearance], Goodness [Kindness], Mildness, Fidelity, Modesty, Continency [Chastity]. The ten lords a-leaping were the Ten Commandments. The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful Apostles. The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in The Apostles' Creed.

Don't spread this around to much... Otherwise they will ban it too.

I'll be home for Christmas. You can count on me. Nah, not really.

Some of my Favorites

12 Pains of Christmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4NlR5KQLQ8

Holy E36M3 its Christmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_U1yTp7cX0

Wreck The Malls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Py-kRZLs4

Bob Rivers and Red Peters have a lot of great stuff.

SVreX wrote: "You better watch out! You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town" Sounds pretty threatening. So there is this weird, fat, everpresent creepy guy watching children 24/7, and if they screw up even just once, they have nothing but coal, trauma, alienation and social exclusion to look forward to during the holidays. That ought to scare the E36 M3 out of the average suburban mom.

Let's talk about "Baby It's Cold Outside"...

I think the whole "Date Rape" perspective is a complete misinterpretation of the song, and that many of you are missing a really great song, plus a heck of a lot of history.

That song was written in 1944 by Frank Loesser for his wife, Lynn Garland. They performed it privately together for 4 years before he sold it to MGM. Garland was pissed when he sold it- she considered it "Their song".

It is a wonderful interplay between two adults with a strong mutual attraction, both wanting to be with each other more. They are sharing a sexy and provocative moment, together.

The line, "Say what's in this drink?" has absolutely nothing to do with him slipping a drug into her drink. She is recognizing she's had a few too many, and "blaming" the drink.

Everything she says is 100% opposite to what she actually wants. That's the point. It's coy, cute, and quite romantic.

I find the modern reinterpretation of "Date Rape" insulting and juvenile. It's kind of creepy that people would even think something like that.

Hundreds of musicians have recorded it, and a lot of it is incredible music. There is so much history to it, you could literally write a book on it.

When it was first released in 1948 by MGM, "Neptune's Daughter" included the song twice. Ricardo Montalbán sang it with Esther Williams and Red Skelton sung it with Betty Garrett. In the second version, the roles are reversed. Betty Garrett is the "wolf".

In 1949, there were 10 different versions recorded, and 7 made the charts. One of these was 2 men singing it (Bing Crosby and James Stewart).

Versions have been recorded by 2 men, as well as 2 women. Many recordings have been made with the woman as the "wolf".

I spoke with my Dad about the cultural context. He was 18 when it was first released. He is a musician, and has literally heard 100's of different artist's recordings of it. He was shocked at the "Date Rape" misinterpretation. So was my Mom.

It just didn't happen that way, and I think it is pretty sad people distort this like this. It is a fabulously romantic piece, and I would love to have someone sing it with me, regardless of which part I get to sing.

SVreX wrote: Let's talk about "Baby It's Cold Outside"... I think the whole "Date Rape" perspective is a complete misinterpretation of the song, and that many of you are missing a really great song, plus a heck of a lot of history. That song was written in 1944 by Frank Loesser for his wife, Lynn Garland. They performed it privately together for 4 years before he sold it to MGM. Garland was pissed when he sold it- she considered it "Their song". It is a wonderful interplay between two adults with a strong mutual attraction, both wanting to be with each other more. They are sharing a sexy and provocative moment, together. The line, "Say what's in this drink?" has absolutely nothing to do with him slipping a drug into her drink. She is recognizing she's had a few too many, and "blaming" the drink. Everything she says is 100% opposite to what she actually wants. That's the point. It's coy, cute, and quite romantic. I find the modern reinterpretation of "Date Rape" insulting and juvenile. It's kind of creepy that people would even think something like that. Hundreds of musicians have recorded it, and a lot of it is incredible music. There is so much history to it, you could literally write a book on it. When it was first released in 1948 by MGM, "Neptune's Daughter" included the song twice. Ricardo Montalbán sang it with Esther Williams and Red Skelton sung it with Betty Garrett. In the second version, the roles are reversed. Betty Garrett is the "wolf". In 1949, there were 10 different versions recorded, and 7 made the charts. One of these was 2 men singing it (Bing Crosby and James Stewart). Versions have been recorded by 2 men, as well as 2 women. Many recordings have been made with the woman as the "wolf". I spoke with my Dad about the cultural context. He was 18 when it was first released. He is a musician, and has literally heard 100's of different artist's recordings of it. He was shocked at the "Date Rape" misinterpretation. So was my Mom. It just didn't happen that way, and I think it is pretty sad people distort this like this. It is a fabulously romantic piece, and I would love to have someone sing it with me, regardless of which part I get to sing.

it's about rape- and when 2 guys sing it, it's about prison rape..

Geez...give it a break. They're just songs, don't get so worked up.

I really can't stay

Having a 9 year old son means that we are at the age when things like braking wind will induce ever lasting laughter.

With that said he introduced me to this gem today. He can't get past the first chorus with out hysterical gut busting laughter.

It is great to be a kid.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlFjR2vUy3M

EastCoastMojo wrote: I really can't stay

SVreX wrote: Let's talk about "Baby It's Cold Outside." Words word words

Maybe it flies in 1944 when women "were asking for it and didn't know what they wanted," but I can't think of a single instance of this situation in 2014 of this happening on a college campus when the dude wouldn't be prosecuted...

I still hate being around when this song is on, yes, I know it's about a dude trying to get laid, but damn do I want to smack the guy, how many times does she have to say "no" until you get the message?

Oh man...

This thread has been taken over by the shiny happy people.

I guess there are worse things for people to try to be politically correct about than struggling to apply modern issues to a 70 year old song.

The tone is as important as the words. Unlike this thread, if you listen to the song you can hear the voices, the tone, and whether the tone is flirtatious or argumentative.

I don't recall hearing a version where it was argumentative, overly aggressive, or defensive. I always interpreted the tone as they were flirting and she was being coy.

But that's just my take on it.

KatieSuddard wrote: Why exactly did a traffic cop stop a magic snowman leading a group of children? A traffic cop?

Since it was a song, the cop was automatically dancing in my mind.

Just to put the whole secret-Catholic-code thing to bed, the nice people at Snopes (here) have done a pretty good job applying logic to the question. And Wikipedia says a Canadian invented the whole thing in 1979. Sometimes a French hen is just a French hen.

Sperlo, good vid. He's a retired Providence (RI) police officer. I saw him do his traffic dance routine when he was in his prime (around 20 years ago). He was good, and could go on for hours. He's too old now to perform splits and other athletic moves. He came out at Christmas time for a few minutes last year to perform for the cameras, but it was pretty mild compared to when he was in his prime.

jstand wrote: I don't recall hearing a version where it was argumentative, overly aggressive, or defensive. I always interpreted the tone as they were flirting and she was being coy. But that's just my take on it.

Subtlety, humility, and a bit of humbleness (which imo, being coy is a cute version of those things), doesn't fit into the modern day feminists agenda.

What a crock of E36 M3, that song is about rape? Okey dokey. Hate men and all they've ever done! I get that (roll eyes here).

WonkoTheSane wrote: Maybe it flies in 1944 when women "were asking for it and didn't know what they wanted," ...

With all due respect to your modern enlightened self, that is complete and utter bullE36 M3.

To SVreX: Thanks, man. WelI said (along with your earlier lengthy, articulate, and very intelligent post), I feel vindicated.

SVreX wrote:

WonkoTheSane wrote: Maybe it flies in 1944 when women "were asking for it and didn't know what they wanted," ...

With all due respect to your modern enlightened self, that is complete and utter bullE36 M3.

Keep talking like that and you'll get put on the list to be "disappeared" during the coming purge...Maybe you and I can talk cars during our train ride.

Gary wrote: To SVreX: Thanks, man. WelI said (along with your earlier lengthy, articulate, and very intelligent post), I feel vindicated.

+1

Gary wrote: To SVreX: Thanks, man. WelI said (along with your earlier lengthy, articulate, and very intelligent post), I feel vindicated.

You are welcome.

Sometimes you need to expound on a subject, sometimes you need to get right to the point.