Our family is looking for a dog and we're all pretty enamored with a particular breed. We found a breeder with an available dog relatively close to us and they came out to our house for a meet and greet this weekend. The breeder is very strange, but is breeding dogs with the temperament we're looking for and is genuinely selective about the homes their dogs go to. We've never had anything but rescue animals, so this whole experience with a breeder has been very strange. Informative, but the personalities involved are eccentric, to say the least. Here's the weird thing: the breeder is asking full price for the dog but wants to retain the rights to breed him twice without paying us any stud fee. Shouldn't breeding rights come with a price break? Why would we want to put up with this breeder for multiple stud services and not expect to get something in return?
I should ask to be added to their "pet home" list to take dogs that don't meet breed standards or whatever and politely decline this particular dog just because so many things about this interaction don't seem right to me. Should I ask for a discount for them to retain breeding rights, or is this a normal dog breeder situation?
Would there be a reduction in price if you signed an agreement that you weren't intending to breed the dog and committed to neutering it at an appropriate age?
I would talk to a few local veterinarians and ask them for recommendations for local dog breeders.
I do know that breeders of pedigree dogs are very proud of keeping the lineage going and pure but some get really weird and possessive about it beyond reason with some being outright charlatans.
Maybe there is a Grassroots Dog Breeding forum where you can get good information?
My mother-in-law is a breeder and I bought my Shiba from a breeder. Not all breeders are alike, but they all seem ... umm ... different from the normal population. Their world revolves around dogs, not unlike many of us here whose worlds revolve around cars.
Our breeder wanted us to neuter our dog. Since we intended to show our Shiba - and have history of showing dogs - we were allowed to not neuter him. But we could not breed it without the breeder's approval and if I remember right the breeder gets something, too, for those puppies.
My one word of advice about breeders - not all are alike. Some are truly scumbags. Others don't know what they're doing. And then you have those who really know what they're doing - and may seem a bit weird to us non-show-dog folks.
If you have to ask if it's normal, why do you say it's weird? Have you discussed pricing and breeding rights with other breeders of the breed? How do you know that this breeder doesn't consider the price to already include the breeding rights 'discount' you want? Does breeding rights mean you're not even allowed to have it spayed/neutered if you wanted to, or they only have rights if you choose not to do so but if you do it ceases to be a consideration? Seems one desirable enough for breeding is worth more than one not desirable enough for breeding, so even if it's the same price that's not necessarily inconsistent. If showing for conformance and breeding isn't your desire or intent, why not get a 'home pet' variant anyways? Are there any breed specific rescues?
I hope you are getting this dog as a puppy. My little show dog was Crate trained, not to be happy in a crate and go outside to pee. He lived in a crate like a bird lives in a cage, with a false bottom to clean out. Never learned to hold it or how to ask to go out, we have to constantly take him out, he is 10 now. We rescued him from a breeder that went senile. Our other dog was rescued from the same breeder, she was bred at 9 months old. This breeders friends noticed her bad decisions and re-homed her dogs until she got better, she didn't.
In reply to Mezzanine :
I asked my wife, since she shows the dogs and all I do is hold the bucket. She said it's not unheard of to have this happen: "The breeder is asking full price for the dog but wants to retain the rights to breed him twice without paying us any stud fee." However, as with anything, deals vary breeder to breeder.
Spike the "special" one. Think French Bulldog, in a Yorkie body.
Lolly, the precious one.
Be a bit careful. There can be a lot of inbreeding in pure breeds.
I really don't have anything of value to add, other than saying that my parents bought a Purebred GSD from a breeder when I was a teenager, and even then I was very in tune to how, um, eccentric, the breeder and her family was... So that totally tracks in my mind, haha.
I had a pure bred Dalmatian once. Gorgeous dog, spots evenly placed, none touching (points off) but he was deaf and DUMB as a bucket of mud. Just do the homework on you breed preference.
And put up pictures!
Get one with some mutt in him. We have spent thousands keeping our lab healthy and the in-laws have spent over 10,000 to date trying to maintain a scottie that should have been put down. Purebreeding is effectively encouraging negative genetic traits that cause pain and expense. Last purebred ever for us.
In reply to bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) :
I agree with Martin.
Also, please check out your local shelter. You won't have to pay nearly as much or deal with a breeder. We've had 6(!) dogs come from the shelter and they've all been awesome.
is the breeder a breeder of merit in any of the dog clubs? AKC, CKC, the breed registry, etc.
does the breeder show dogs? if so, where?
The AKC maintains a list of "breeders of merit" and as such those breeders are supposed to be held to a higher standard. The AKC as a club is much like alot of large national clubs, well intentioned but sometimes details get lost in those good intentions.
As for making sure you have a good home and what not. Every dog I have gotten from a breeder usually has information that they want before they approve you for a dog. Never has anybody come to my home but I wouldn't have a problem if they did...
In reply to akylekoz :
I like Ewoks too.
Dog people are crazy. We bought our dog from a breeder, and my wife's friend is a breeder. Crazy people.
Unless you are signing some agreement that could hold up in court, once the you pay for the dog, it's your property. You don't have to do a damn thing with the other person unless you want to. It's a dog. Not a person. It's a piece of property in the eyes of the law. Like buying a car.
There are breeders, and there are breeders......make sure this one is doing all the proper health testing and have a look at their contract - if they have one.
We've bought our dogs 3 times from breeders, only one of the three breeders was worth their salt. We've been mostly lucky, but even with a "good" breeder one of ours had a bad heart. She still lived 16 years so we don't complain.
The two boys we have now, from the same litter - one is healthy as a horse, the other has all sorts of issues. These two came from a "breeder".....we knew better but decided to take a chance. It will cost us.....there will be expensive health issues for us to deal with on the one boy but once you have them there's no turning back.
tonight I was at my dog school where I run agility with 2 of my dogs and I had a chance to ask a few of my classmates who all show dogs and have bred dogs as well if what they are asking was a reasonable request.
They said yes it is, stud contracts and show contracts all have their place BUT... most of those dogs have some form of lineage (championship blood lines, the last of a line, etc, etc.) and those dogs should only go to homes that understand what they are getting. If you're buying a show quality dog from somebody who envisions that the dog will be shown and then accordingly kept intact for breeding, that isn't a typical pet.
Another person who joined the conversation even went as far as saying that you should go in with eyes wide open. Those types of expectations are not unusual but are usually reserved for people who have a special affinity for that breed and want to preserve something in the breed. Those breeders should be helping you select a pet quality dog if you don't want any of those caveats.
to that person's point buyer beware.
aircooled said:Be a bit careful. There can be a lot of inbreeding in pure breeds.
You just provided the definition of a pure breed.
oh, and get a health insurance policy.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:aircooled said:Be a bit careful. There can be a lot of inbreeding in pure breeds.
You just provided the definition of a pure breed.
oh, and get a health insurance policy.
Insurance does not help with the day to day irritation of bad hips and special diets and allergies and respiratory issues and poor temperament and anxiety and constant licking and depression and......
What do yall do for allergies? My chocolate has been a scratching fool for the last few months and she's 8!
In reply to bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter)
All true, but insurance gives you a lot more options for managing these issues.
In reply to grover :
Prescription from the Vet, purchased at Costco because it's way less expensive. My Yorkie just started with the allergies at 10 years old, mine started at 51.
grover said:What do yall do for allergies? My chocolate has been a scratching fool for the last few months and she's 8!
Our dog had terrible allergies that would cause him to scratch himself into staph infections and ear infections over and over and over. The old vet would let him get bad, give him steroids and an antibiotic, and then after a couple months he'd be right back there.
The new vet, however, has us keeping him on Apoquel for about 6-8 months now and he has never been better. No ear infections, no lesions on his skin, and no significant scratching or itching. As much as I hated to take the business away from the local vet, Costco is about $60/mo cheaper on the prescription so we do it that way. They also have a beef-flavored chewable which is a game-changer instead of having to wrestle this dog like an orderly in a mental institution, he takes it as a treat when he comes inside in the morning.
That said, apparently different dogs react differently to different allergy medications, so there are others out there. But this one has been the one for us.
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