Are short lines obligated to paint their own livery upon purchase / lease within a timeframe? Or is it just a if they want to kind of deal? I can see having to put their own identification markings on before use, but that could as simple as some number-boards being swapped over for the most part no?
In reply to DjGreggieP :
Liveries on railroading stuff these days is just a means of branding and advertisement. Most shortlines don't even bother to paint over the old logo sometimes and just put a patch with their calling marks and maybe a new number for it. If a shortline is repainting engines then they're better off and have the extra capital to justify doing it.
In reply to DjGreggieP :
As was said, nope, no limit or rules. The big thing is you have to have your reporting marks, and if it's an active railroad that you purchased it from, you have to paint out any trademarks. When NYS&W bought their SD70M-2s from NS, they painted out the Thoroughbred logo on the nose and applied the NYS&W circled S logo and reporting marks, and renumbered them to fit their number system. When Pan Am bought some C40-8s off of CSX, they just put a paint stripe through the CSX lettering on the long hood, and then rattle-canned the yellow noses in random colors and put Maine Central reporting marks on them. Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern had ex-BCRail C425s and M420Ws (technically still does, since they repainted some in fresh paint as heritage units) 30 years after purchase
Some of the big leasing companies, like GMTX or CitiRail or CIT Equipment Financing have their own liveries that they apply.
Then you had others, like Big Dog Leasing, Helm Leasing or Larry's Truck & Electrical, where they just patch out the old railroad's reporting marks, slap their own on them, and sent them back out. A lot of instances, these were referred to as "rent-a-wrecks" because of their scruffy appearance, and usually matching mechanical condition.
Then some railroads chose to have leased engines, if a long-term lease, painted into their own paint scheme, and even lettered for their system, while they still retain the leasing companies reporting marks. The first ones tht come to mind are the GATX/GMTX SD60s that they were leasing to NYS&W and GATX painted it in NYS&W "yellowjacket" but with GMTX reporting marks. I think those are still kicking around in NYSW paint, which is especially ironic in the case of the #9059 since it never was accepted by NYS&W. They had 5 SD60s and two got totalled in a derailment caused by a washout. GATX sent two more, including the #9059, and NYS&W refused to accept delivery of the #9059 because it had numerous mechanicaal failures the first couple times they tried to use it. Of course, there were those that joked that NYS&W turned it away because it didn't follow their numbering system (first two digits are horsepower, last two digits are even numbers if M.U.-equipped)
Also worth noting that sometimes having a pretty ragtag fleet of equipment isn't necessarily a sign of weak finances either. It may be a case of them being so busy that they can't spare the motive power for something that's not really necessary, like paint. Reading & Northern has been chipping away at it, but they've still got a couple engines running around in patched-out NS colors, and even the stuff they have in R&N colors is kind of mismatched, because there is about 6 different variations on the R&N paint scheme.
The SD50s wore this solid green, with a gray roof and yellow pinstripe. It's pretty much vanished from the system, as they've retired the ex-UP/MP SD50s, which were true SD50s in the regards that they were still rated at 3500hp, versus the ex-CSX "SD50-2s" that were derated to SD40 horsepower.
The SD50-2s wear the Fast Freight Service grey, black and red. And even then there are slight variations on the paint scheme, mostly the handrail colors. And originally the #5018 wore a more red-heavy livery before repaint to match the #5019.
The SD40s and SD38s wear green with a solid yellow nose.
The GP38-2s and GP39RNs wear green with yellow chevrons.
Except for the two GP39RNs that wear the same layout but maroon and red, part of a short-lived initiative to make that the passenger power paint scheme. Except that scheme quickly faded to pink and yellow.
The end-cab switchers wear solid green with yellow frames and handrails.
And then the F-units wear a unique black, white and red livery.
Duke said:
I would imagine that, even though there are crossing lights (no gates), it was probably standard procedure for the crew to stop, wait, then cross. Maybe even have the brakeman flag them across, just to be safe. I guarantee that a couple cars got their front end cleaned off there.
Duke said:
I never cared for that Katy paint scheme. Didn't like the particular shade of green, continuing the stripes up into the cab on the road switchers was a weird look, and the MKT block lettering was dorky. MKT actually had an F3A that they converted to a B-Unit, which was pretty strange. It got smashed up in a collision, and they overhauled it with GP38 guts, but removed the control stands from the cab, blanked out the windows, and added a full-height door in the nose that required removing the headlight. Damn homely thing.
On the topic of shortlines with mismatched paint, one of the more maligned one is the New England Central. It was started in 1995 by Railtex to take over a big chunk of the old Central Vermont, and it began operations with a dozen GP38 variants in a really nice gold and blue paint scheme.
Then RailAmerica (often derogatorily referred to as RailGenerica) bought RailTex, inheriting the NECR, and they brought in a bunch of mismatched older junk that never got repainted. That included an ex-DM&IR SD-M in faded grey and red from the Georgia Southwestern, patched-out dark blue GP40s from Florida East Coast, patched gray and yellow ex-UP SD40/SD45Ms, and GP40-2Ws in RailAmerica red, silver and blue. Plus there was always power borrowed from neighboring railroads or other RailAmerica properties and leasing companies.
And then in 2012, RailAmerica was purchased by Genesee & Wyoming, adding the G&W orange, yellow and black livery into the mix, as well as unpainted visitors from other G&W properties. The number of original NECR blue and gold GP38s has dwindled through retirements, and the SD-M is slated to be scrapped by G&W under EPA enforcement, but there's still a pretty ugly mix of liveries, and I've heard a lot of railfans talk about how unphotogenic the NECR is with their dog's breakfast of motive power.
Pretty interesting announcement yesterday: NS is donating $10,000 to the restoration of #611. No, not N&W #611, the other #611, Lehigh & New England #611. L&NE #611 is an Alco S-2 and the last surviving L&NE diesel locomotive (There's also an 0-6-0 out to IRM, the only other L&NE locomotive and a rare anthracite road steam locomotive). Built in '48 alongside 4 other S-2 sisters, the #611 served the L&NE up until 1961, when the L&NE filed for abandonment. Although still profitable at the time, the L&NE management saw the writing on the wall and got out of the business while the getting was good. Louisville & Nashville bought a lot of the L&NE S-2s, RS-2s and FA-1s, while Raymond International bought the other RS-2s. Weird story there, Raymond International shipped them overseas to Liberia for a construction project in the Nimba Mountains, then shipped them back to the US, after which some went to Mexico, while Precision National scrapped the rest.
The #611 was the oddball though. It was used for cleaning up the railroad during abandonment, and then was sold to Ford Motor Co. for use at their plants. It then passed through a chain of owners; Toledo, Lake Erie & Western 611, then to Ag One Co-op, then to Emporia Grain Co-op, and finally to Archer Daniels Midland. After it ended its working career at a grain elevator in Indiana in 2016, the Lehigh New England Preservation Society and Lehigh Valley Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society moved the locomotive back east to Pennsylvania, and it’s currently located on the Allentown & Auburn Railroad. The funds donated by NS will be used to overhaul the traction motors.
The logic behind the donation is that the company’s Cement Secondary line from Bethlehem to Stockertown is original Lehigh & New England trackage, which was picked up by CNJ after the L&NE closed down. Also, Topton, where the restoration is taking place at the Allentown & Auburn Railroad, is on the main line of NS’ Keystone Division. The grant comes as part of the Thriving Communities Grant Program, which aims to promote economic opportunity, support vibrant community life, and provide equal access to basic necessities.
Allentown & Auburn is one of those operations that I need to get to, but it seems like every time I'm in the area, they're not open. They don't run every weekend, and while I'm in that area a few times of year (Kutztown, PA) it never overlaps with their schedule. In addition to hosting the nonprofit-owned L&NE #611, they also own a 1937-built EMC SW, which is believed to be the oldest regularly-operating diesel in the US. It predates the General Motors buyout of Electro-Motive Corp, and was originally built with a 600hp inline-8 Winton 201A. It was sold to Pittsburgh, Bethlehem & New England Railroad, Bethlehem Steel's railroad division, and was reengined with a 567CR block (R for counter-clockwise revolution) in 1955. The locomotive operated on both the Maryland & Pennsylvania, as their #83, and Stewartstown Railroad, as their #11, but since 2014, it has operated under its original #206 on the Allentown & Auburn. While it now has an EMD 567C block, but it retains its EMC electrical system and early lifting hood vents.
When EMC introduced their switcher line, there were four variants; SC, SW, NC, and NW. The S stood for Six hundred horsepower while the N stood for Nine hundred horsepower, and the C stood for Cast frame while the W stood for Welded frame. The cast frame variants were pretty rare and vanished from the lineup early on, and then while EMD kept the SW/NW names, they muddied the waters almost immediately. The NW2 had 1000hp, and then the SW7 had 1200hp, while the SW8 had 800hp. EMD got rid of the NW lineup, after a few low-selling variants, then said that SW stood for Switcher, while the number was a random designation, only to move towards the number signifying the horsepower later on with the SW600/SW900/SW1000/SW1200/SW1500. The SW name was retired in 1974, and replaced with the MP15 and it's variants (MP15DC/MP15AC/MP15T), with MP for Multi-Purpose and 15 for 1500hp. And Multi-Purpose they were, with Long Island Railroad ordering their MP15ACs with passenger gearing and using them on push-pull commuter trains.
The obscure and rarely photographed Thermal Belt Railway, based out of Morgantown, NC, also owns an early EMC SW that they operate, but theirs was built a year after Allentown & Auburn #206. It was ordered by Missouri Pacific in '38 for use on subsidiary Union Terminal Railway, which later became St. Joseph Belt Railway before being merged into Missouri Pacific. Like the #206, it has long since lost it's Winton 201A prime mover, but unlike the #206, it no longer retains EMD power. It was repowered sometime in the '70s with a 600hp Caterpillar engine.
IRM has the sole surviving EMC SC (600hp, Cast-frame), Dardenelle & Russelville #14, which was also built for Missouri Pacific in '35 before finding it's eventual way to the Dardanelle & Russelville. The big thing with D&R #14 is that while it was built before #206, and it still has it's Winton 201A, it's obviously far from operational, largely because it still has the Winton 201A. GM/EMD ended support of the 201A in the 1950s, and parts for that engine family just do not exist anymore. But as old as the #14 is, that bizarre-looking machine behind it, 300hp Baldwin Westinghouse Visibility Cab donated by Armco, was built five years earlier. That is also not operational, but there is another ex-Armco Baldwin Westinghouse Visibility Cab, #B73, at the PA Trolley Museum that is operational. Why is Allentown & Auburn the oldest regularly-operating diesel? Well, #B73 operates very very rarely, mostly to shift their standard gauge rolling stock or to power the trolleys during long outages. Allentown & Auburn runs the #206 anytime they are running.
Delaware-Lackawanna owns an EMC switcher that is so early built, that it lacks a model number. It was essentially an SC, but EMC hadn't come up with the model name when it was built in February of '35 for the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western. You can see how visibly different it is from the production SW/SC/NW/NC, with the weird half grille, steam locomotive-style headlamp mounted on top of the hood, and lack of hood taper in front of the cab and sandbox ahead of the hood. The #426, and sister DL&W #425, were the first EMC switchers built, and in '62 they had the Winton 201As removed and replaced with EMD 567s. It kicked through a bunch of owners afterwards, until Delaware-Lackawanna bought it, restored it to as-built appearance and put it on display at Steamtown. Again, it's operational, but its very rarely actually run. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it in a different location, always the one track around the turntable, but I know people said that a the 2015 Railfest it was used to haul caboose hops around the yard.
If it seems odd that the Alco stronghold of Delaware-Lackawanna owning an EMC switcher seems odd, then consider that they also own an EMD GP7, rebuilt to a GP8 by Conrail. The reason for owning the GP8 is the same as that of owning the #426: D-L operates over DL&W trackage and GP8 #959 was originally built as DL&W GP7 #959. Eventual plans call for a return to as-built appearance and I haven't heard much on it lately, but for a while it was being used in revenue service, still in faded Conrail blue. Mostly when asked on it's status, the answer is that their shops are busy keeping the revenue-generating Alcos running, and the #959 is more of a pet project.
A misconception on a lot of DL&W diesel power is that the switchers and road switchers were all painted the same gray, maroon and yellow as the cab units. This is furthered by the fact that the Erie-Lackawanna later used the DL&W cab unit livery and painted it on all their switchers and road switchers. But actually, all of those units, except for the F-M H24-66s, were painted a rather austere black with yellow handrailing and Lackawanna lettering.
Delaware-Lackawanna also has one of those old Alco HH660 switchers, also acquired due to it's ex-DL&W heritage. Intent is to eventually get this back in it's DL&W paint and number, but it did already run when they acquired it. Amazing, this old 538-powered relic was still in regular service for RELCO at a grain elevator when they bought it.
Alco's HH-series switchers, with HH standing for High Hood, were the railroad's first entry into the switcher market, starting in 1931 with a 600hp prototype known as Alco #600, which was sold to New Haven to become their #0900. Like the early EMC switchers, the Alco HHs weren't huge sales successes, especially compared to the follow-up S-1 and S-2 switchers, and Alco only sold 176, plus prototype #600, across four models and nine years. Like the later S-series switcher, which had a turbocharged version and a naturally-aspirated companion, the HH-series was similarly offered with a lower horsepower and higher horsepower variant available concurrently. The 600hp HH600 and 900hp HH900, which used the old Macintosh & Seymour 531 inline-6 were offered from '32 to '38, and then the M&S 538-powered 660hp HH660 and 1000hp HH1000 were offered from late '38 to 1940 .
The unit pictured below, New Haven #0924/Penn Central #9411 was, I believe, the last HH-series switcher to be active on a Class I railroad. It was the only HH to make it onto the Penn Central roster when New Haven was merged into PC in 1969, and was only beaten out in age by the GG1 and one DD1 electric, as well as some ex-NYC SW1s. It was retired in 1971, and only wore PC lettering, never receiving the full PC black paint.
We got a nasty lake effect storm dumped on us last weekend, I saw three feet of snow at my house in about 72 hours, and places north of me saw upwards of 70" of snow in the same time span. John Koslosky, Mr. Railroading Rambler himself, has put out a series of videos showing snow in the area, as well as the NYS&W and MA&N fighting the conditions.
There's also a video floating around of MA&N #2453 and #2456 busting snow banks north of Remsen that's been going around Facebook.
Adirondack Railroad is running the first of their winter trains to Remsen and back tomorrow, and I'm planning to go out and photograph it. Last I knew, the M420W, #3573, was out of service, so if that isn't fixed it should rate either C424 #2400 or one of the RS-18us, which are much more photogenic options to the patched-out M420W. I'm really hoping for the #2400, since I don't get to see that one too much.
In reply to NickD :
Hey Nick, what's the best way to find out where active excursion railroads are located around the country? I'd like to start taking trips to visit some, or possibly plot our routes to other destinations based on them.
In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
Wikipedia actually has a pretty good list by state, visit their website for schedule and information, and then just use Google Maps to plot routes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heritage_railroads_in_the_United_States
You'll need to log in to post.
