GrassrootsFirearmSports - Saiga 12

Got a guy offering a Saiga 12 (with a couple box magazines and a drum) plus some cash for my Model A. I don't know jack about these things aside from the fact that they seem pretty badass. My only issue is that I'm 45 minutes from a range that will let me shoot a scattergun, so as much fun as it may be to shoot, I don't have a ton of use for it. I mean, I'm sure it's a great home defense/zombie apocalypse gun, but I feel like I can get the same bang for my buck with a plain jane Mossberg.

I'm doing some internet shopping to get an idea of values, and a lot of ads make reference to 'conversion' or 'full conversion.' What's that all about?

So, what's to know, good and bad, about the Saiga? Any idea of ballpark value?

The only thing I know is that the basic design is based off of the AK-47. Call up a local gun store and ask what they'd ask for the package.

This could help too: http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.htm?T=saiga

Brand new factory ones are $650. Customized ones get up to $1800-$2500 depending on mods. I want one extremely bad. Drum mags are like $100 iirc. They're loads of fun to shoot, but if you're not in an area where you can enjoy it, I see the point of not really wanting it. I have 47 acres of do-what-I-want here and I can blow through tons of ammo in any of my assorted assault weapons.

Go here...

http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm

with a quick google, it looks like they can range from 700ish to 2500 bucks, depending on who did what to it, with most being around 1000-1300, but i've never had any interest in one personally. the only one i've seen shoot in person jammed every 4 or 5 shells and took until the next ceasefire to clear. it was impressive in those four or five shots though, basically and AK 12-gauge.

The Mossberg would probably be more reliable. When I think home defense shotgun, I think Mossberg 500 - I'd be completely confident in it and it wouldn't hurt me when the cops confiscated it.

There is a huge aftermarket for the Saiga if you're into tacticool stuff. It's a magazine fed semi-auto shotgun, which is cool no matter how you slice it.

Not long ago it was a $300 gun. I'd say what he's offering you should be work a little over $500 dollars today, which take into account that it's used, prices have risen and I assume people abuse everything they touch. Some people price them like gold because they think they're about to get banned, but at the end of the day, it's a cheap gun that would be a lot of fun to shoot.

I think I'd rather have a Model A and a good pump shotgun. (But I do have a couple of ARs already...)

Here's what he says he has:

dude said: comes standard with a 3 round detachable box magazine; also i have a 10 round detachable box magazine and a 20 round detachable drum magazine. The gun also has a red dot scope mounted on a quick detachable scope rail and can be easily removed with the flick of the locking lever. It also has an adjustable 6 position pistol grip stock

I guess the 'conversion' is to pistol grip, which everybody seems to want on these things. Looks like the conversion goes for around $150-$500 depending on parts and whether you DIY or have a shop do it.

Maybe I'll see if I can buy it right and re-sell it to a friend with more use for it, and get a Mossberg and a 1911 with the money.

I shoot out in Warrenton. You're welcome to come and shoot whatever you want out there.

Yeah, I'll need a place for some kind of shotgun practice sometime hopefully soon. I'll hit you up when I'm in need. Can I bring friends if they have cool stuff?

No problem. Thats where I practice sniping.

There's a shotgun range in Hazelwood. I part time in a surplus store and the CCW Teachers I believe are in business with them as well. I'll see what I can find out in that regard.

A Saiga is a pretty bad ass shotgun, so bad ass the ATF put out a study in January of this year pretty much saying that it has no sporting purpose whatsoever and is contemplating banning it. While they don't the name the Saiga by name, it's pretty clear that it's the shotgun they are referring to.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

MG_Bryan wrote: The Mossberg would probably be more reliable. When I think home defense shotgun, I think Mossberg 500 - I'd be completely confident in it and it wouldn't hurt me when the cops confiscated it.

This, absolutely. The Saiga is fantastic in theory, not so much in practice. I have no first hand experience, but the internet says(so it must be so) that 3/4 of these need work right out of the box. Failure to eject, failure to feed, easily unseated mags, etc.

For sake of reliability, I'd much rather have a Moss 500; it's already on my holiday shopping list.

I have a Saiga 12. Its one of the later "4 port" guns, so its dead nuts reliable after a few tweaks. I also have a Mossberg 590A1 Tacti-cool that is fun, but not nearly as fun as the Saiga.

A few things to keep in mind.
1. Its worth $500 tops used, even with the accessories. You could sell it for 600 or 700 if you want out.
2. They are an absolute hoot to shoot. Mine is very popular in my group of friends to borrow. Its great with a 20 round drum full of "Illegal Eddie Homeloads"
3. They can be made dead nuts reliable on light low brass loads for trap shooting. Disassemble, deburr and polish the guts, and run about 100 high power rounds through it to break it in, clean, and you are ready to rock and roll.
4. The conversion from "sportster" (as it comes out of the box) back to factory configuration (pistol grip and folding stock) is super easy. I have $250 in parts and an afternoon of work with a dremel, drill press, and a pick set into it. Makes it a lot of fun to shoot. I got my parts from Carolina Shooters Supply.
5. Its accurate, or at least as accurate as a shotgun is gonna get. I can routinely do 23 or 24 out of 25 in a round of clays even with the narrow sight window and factory iron sights.
6. If it interests you at all, get it before the gun grabbers do!

93gsxturbo wrote: Its worth $500 tops used, even with the accessories. You could sell it for 600 or 700 if you want out.

Wow, really? I'm seeing them listed at like $1500 on GunsAmerica with full conversions and some tacticool bolt-ons. Are those just nutty asking prices? (Not debating your claim, just looking for clarification - you're actually familiar with these things, and I only know what the internet tells me.)

The one I'm going to look at has been converted to some degree. That seems like a possible point of trouble if te work was done by a hamfisted DIYer. Is there anything out of the ordinary I should be looking for in the conversion process, or will a hack job be pretty obvious?

For that matter anything in particular I should look for when I inspect this thing in an environment that I won't be able to test fire it?