In reply to SV reX :
Does the property owner have any opinion on this, or is he/she leaving in your fiance's hands? I'll add my opinion to the pile that said take it to the sheriff or have the sheriff come get it, but I understand she has taken that option of the table. In my case, whether my wife wanted to or not, I'd take it to the sheriff and let her chew me out. I'm with you...that was pretty irresponsible of the gun owner, he should some consequences.
In reply to jfryjfry :
This has been an interesting quandary.
What I've learned from this scenario is there are more than one path of "logic". And, that's not a specific judgement call on any path
Layer onto that varying state laws and like much of 2A, it's all complex.
I think she may want to tell Airbnb , so if the owner gives a bad review she has some back-up.
How about if you ask the Police what is the proper way to return the gun , and let them guide you ?
Mr_Asa
MegaDork
12/29/24 1:20 p.m.
About the only opinion I fully agree with in here is Doc's. Your fiance needs to make sure there is no possibility of legal shenanigans for her chosen path.
Outside of that, i may not like how it appears to be going, but not my circus, not my monkeys.
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself said:
If the gun was left loaded, in the nightstand, ready to fire for personal protection, then why wasn't it then carried on the yahoo's person when they left, ya'kno, also for personal protection?
Because the renter forgot about it. Likely he was carrying it for self defense (common in the south), put it in the nightstand, and then got distracted in the morning. Maybe he was late for an appointment or his phone rang at the wrong time or whatever. Out of sight, out of mind. Do you know anyone with ADHD? This kind of thing happens, and there's no reason to infer nefarious intent.
The TSA finds a firearm in about 1 out of every 100K bags they screen and approximately zero of them are attempted hijackers. I'm not saying this is acceptable, but it is human and understandable. "There but for the grace of god" and so on.
As I mentioned earlier, if I had found the firearm I would want legal advice on this -- meaning from an actual attorney rather than some yahoos on the internet or from the police (who are not attorneys and often don't know the law).
My take on it is as long as all laws are followed by you/her handle it as you see fit.
If it was me I would most likely contact the police and explain the situation (as a business owner) and ask if they could run the serial number to make sure it is not stolen. (You never know). If returning it directly is legal I think I would want proof of ownership from the person that lost it. A copy of a bill of sale, a copy of the registration (assuming that your state has this). I would draw up a transfer of possession document stating that on this date the firearm with serial number XXXXX was transferred to the possession of X person. I would want a copy of there ID and have them sign the transfer document with you and them both keeping a copy. What I would be looking for is a bit of CYA in case it is used in a bad situation down the road. You can have the paperwork in hand to prove that you/she did things correctly by the law.
As for how or who to turn it over to I would defer to local laws.
I had an experience with a lost firearm. My wifes pistol came from CA with her to MA when she moved here was lost by the local authorities. They were holding it while she got her MA licence sorted as MA does not accept CA licences. When I went back for it having the paperwork to back up the fact that my wife had given it to them was our get out of jail free card. It would have been their word against ours. For the record the firearm was never found but it is now on record of the transfer of possession to the local authorities (my wife is still listed as the owner) and it is now in all the systems as a stolen firearm should it ever be run through the system for a sale or transfer of ownership.
A CYA Paperwork trail is KING when dealing with firearms.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
There's zero acceptable excuse for "forgetting" a firearm. I bet he didn't forget his phone.
Paul, aren't you the property owner?
SV reX
MegaDork
12/29/24 1:39 p.m.
In reply to dculberson :
No.
We own 3 rental properties, but manage 9 more. This property is owned by someone else.
SV reX
MegaDork
12/29/24 1:41 p.m.
Steve_Jones said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
There's zero acceptable excuse for "forgetting" a firearm. I bet he didn't forget his phone.
He didn't say it was acceptable. He said it was human.
Mr_Asa
MegaDork
12/29/24 1:42 p.m.
Steve_Jones said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
There's zero acceptable excuse for "forgetting" a firearm. I bet he didn't forget his phone.
There are two opinions i fully agree with in this thread
SV reX said:
Steve_Jones said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
There's zero acceptable excuse for "forgetting" a firearm. I bet he didn't forget his phone.
He didn't say it was acceptable. He said it was human.
Ok, let's take a poll. Has anyone here ever forgotten a firearm? We are all human.
SV reX
MegaDork
12/29/24 1:55 p.m.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
You put "forgetting" in parenthesis...
So, you think it was intentional?
Obviously it was forgotten.
Steve_Jones said:
SV reX said:
Steve_Jones said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
There's zero acceptable excuse for "forgetting" a firearm. I bet he didn't forget his phone.
He didn't say it was acceptable. He said it was human.
Ok, let's take a poll. Has anyone here ever forgotten a firearm? We are all human.
One of the reasons I don't think I'd every carry is because I know how my brain works. I could easily be "left a gun in the nightstand" guy. I've forgotten my CPAP more than once and literally need it to survive the night most days.
If it was me the gun would be handed off to local police. There are too many variables on how it can go wrong and few upsides to not doing it.
johndej
UltraDork
12/29/24 2:06 p.m.
How is this an argument? Call local police, here I found this gun, its not mine, I don't want it, it probably belongs to this guy. Report to AirBnB is a no brainer, the guy probably gets banned so won't even be able to post a review. There's no reason to do anything else. Don't let sympathy or other emotional responses do anything else. Hell if the owner found out they'd be justified to terminate your fiance for not using the proper policy per air bnb and could lead to having the properties removed.
SV reX
MegaDork
12/29/24 2:07 p.m.
In reply to johndej :
There is no AirBnB policy she violated.
The owner is fully aware.
There is also no law in the State of Alabama she violated.
SV reX said:
In reply to Steve_Jones :
You put "forgetting" in parenthesis...
So, you think it was intentional?
Obviously it was forgotten.
I'm putting it in quotes just to point out how dumb accepting forgetting a firearm is an ok reason to give the guy a break.
95% of your replies on this thread are coming off as argumentative (at least to me). I get you're frustrated with the situation, but no one here is involved. You asked for advice, then want to argue why the advice is bad.
Steve_Jones said:
SV reX said:
Steve_Jones said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
There's zero acceptable excuse for "forgetting" a firearm. I bet he didn't forget his phone.
He didn't say it was acceptable. He said it was human.
Ok, let's take a poll. Has anyone here ever forgotten a firearm? We are all human.
If you re-read what I posted, you'll see that I specifically did NOT say it was acceptable.
I have never forgotten one, but that's at least partly because I don't carry them around very often. If I do have one it's unusual, which makes me more aware of it and less likely to forget. "familiarity breeds contempt" and all that.
The consequences (both legal and otherwise) for forgetting a firearm are significant, but the actual mechanism that our brains use to remember it are the same as for any other item. Remembering the phone is easier because you use it a lot more frequently, so if you *do* forget then you haven't gotten very far before you realize and go back for it. Police officers have been known to lose their service weapons. A friend of mine works for Enterprise, she has found firearms in returned rental cars on multiple occasions. It happens.
As for "forgetting" in quotes, there's little doubt that's what happened. If he wanted to dispose of a firearm in a way that wasn't traceable back to him, throwing it off a bridge into a river would make a lot more sense than leaving it in the nightstand of an AirBnB that he'd rented with a credit card.
SV reX
MegaDork
12/29/24 2:21 p.m.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I am in agreement with much of what you have said. I agree I would notify the Sheriff. I agree there is no acceptable excuse for forgetting or mishandling a firearm.
I disagree however with bullying people into agreeing with your opinion.
You have not shown me a single thing she has done wrong, but seem intent on strong-arming the position that she has handled it incorrectly. That's not OK.
Its not my account. It's not my property. It's not my business. I've sat down with her and shared my opinions and those from this thread, but it's ultimately her decision.
I support that, and recognize that she has acted very responsibly (though I would have handled it differently)
Why is it not OK that someone has chosen to handle the situation differently than you think it should be handled?
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:
One of the reasons I don't think I'd every carry is because I know how my brain works. I could easily be "left a gun in the nightstand" guy. I've forgotten my CPAP more than once and literally need it to survive the night most days.
I agree, the cost benefit analysis doesn't make sense to me personally -- I don't think there's enough threat to me that I want the liability that comes with carrying (plus where I live you basically need to donate 6 figures to the Sheriff's election campaign to get a CCW permit anyway). That said, other people might easily be in a situation with specific threats to change that balance (abusive ex or whatever).
In reply to SV reX :
Well since you want to argue, fine, I'll bite. Show me where I said she didn't handle it right. Show me where I'm "bullying people into my opinion". I don't know how she's handled it, so there's no way I could say it's "not ok".
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself said:
If the gun was left loaded, in the nightstand, ready to fire for personal protection, then why wasn't it then carried on the yahoo's person when they left, ya'kno, also for personal protection?
Because the renter forgot about it. Likely he was carrying it for self defense (common in the south), put it in the nightstand, and then got distracted in the morning. Maybe he was late for an appointment or his phone rang at the wrong time or whatever. Out of sight, out of mind. Do you know anyone with ADHD? This kind of thing happens, and there's no reason to infer nefarious intent.
Did I mention nefarious intent?
Do I know someone with ADHD?
I have ADHD.
And he obviously wasn't carrying it for self defense, as it was sitting in a nightstand while he was sitting at home. And he couldn't be bothered to go back to pick it up himself. I've forgotten plenty of stuff in motel rooms. Nothing as important as a loaded firearm. And I made a beeline back to pick up anything that was worth more that $25. If you are carrying, you are carrying. You don't have it in your sightline, you feel it. And if you don't feel the weight of it on your person, and the responsibility, then you probably aren't taking it seriously enough.
Or, I guess he could just chuck it, loaded, on the dash on the seat or in the glovebox. And then I would also say he isn't taking the responsibility seriously enough.
As for the CPAP, also have one of those to keep me alive. But I don't need it to keep me alive while I am driving.
SV reX said:
In reply to Steve_Jones :
Why is it not OK that someone has chosen to handle the situation differently than you think it should be handled?
I just read the entire thread. There is only one reply saying they would handle it different than she did. It was from You.
SV reX
MegaDork
12/29/24 2:45 p.m.
In reply to Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself :
This is not my area of expertise, but as I understand it a temporary residence (like a hotel room) has the legal status of one's home. The right to bear arms extends to one's residence (a gun in your home is considered in your possession), and this extends to a temporary residence (as long as the weapon is handled and stored legally).
The challenge in this situation is that the rented space is someone else's home, and they also have the right to establish rules about weapons in their property. I don't know the legal nuances.
He had the right to carry, and he had the right to bring it to a rented property with the owner's permission (which he didn't have).
When he left the rented space, he forgot his weapon. He didn't chuck it or discard it.
But we all agree he was grossly negligent in how he mishandled his responsibility.
P3PPY
UltraDork
12/29/24 2:54 p.m.
Out of curiosity, why is your fiancé reluctant to hand it over to the law or report to ABnB? Good on you for dissuading shipping, by the way.