OP, whatever you do, dont let some craigslist/facebook mobile mechanic do the swap. Take it to a legitimate shop and have them order the engine for you from a reputable place. The last thing you want happen is that you get a E36 M3 junkyard engine and have no recourse to utilize a warranty. At a legit shop, if the replacement engine is crap, you can at least have them pull it and send it back under the junkyard's warranty (the junkyard might not cover labor to pull it again).
Point Im making is its better to spend a few hundred or couple grand more to ensure you are covered in case something goes wrong than to go with the cheapest possible route and end up with the worst possible outcome.
You're looking at at least $5-6K for this. $3K ish for an engine - about 20 hours of labor, and various fluids, gaskets, etc.
In reply to FatMongo :
I found some online for high $3K range, that include a warranty. So since this is looking to be 5-6 grand, here's the question: Instead of spending 5 grand on the motor, can I sell the car as-is for 5 grand less? Removing all other factors, the out of pocket cost would be the same (actually not quite, if I get it out of my hands sooner then I won't be paying more car payments and insurance). Just trying to consider all my options here.
I realize I'm basically screwed no matter what. If one of my options is much lower stress than others, that's something to consider.
My experience has been that a car needing repairs will sell at a price lower than "What it's worth in good running order" minus cost of needed repairs. The person buying it won't be able to properly test drive it (and so will not have a good way of evaluating the trans, suspension, etc, etc.) and is assuming a lot of risk, they're also assuming the risk of the repairs going sideways. You'll probably be better off fixing and selling it if recovering the most money is your goal. You could try to sell it as it stands and see what you'll get, but given that you're still paying a note on the car, delay is costing you money and people aren't going to be lining up to buy a broken car unless it's bargain priced.
In reply to infinitenexus :
Well, it depends on how your lender would let you handle it. If my math is right, you would still be on the hook for $11K if you sold the car for $5K.
If you fixed the car for $7K and it's is running as it should, and let's say you sold the car for $15K, you would only be down $8K after it's all said and done.
You might want to sit on this for a couple months and think it through. Continue to put some money aside for the repair fund, but contact your insurance to let them know the car is parked and continue to pay your car loan.
In reply to infinitenexus :
Others have chimed in on the 50-60 miles question, and I would go with their expertise. If you do need to go to carmax, tow it almost all of the way there. It sounds like the effort to get the pan off is not trivial in this car, so that pulls it off of the "easy" list. I am way to far away to be making repair suggestions, I was more listing things to find out if you had a plan, and if so, what the plan is. At this point, I would not dive in further without a clear plan of what and how for anything you want to implement. Can you pull a motor in the sand? Sure, but it might be easier and cheaper to build a work deck to do it on. If you do swap anything yourself, you may wish to ask your dad if he would be willing to help with space and with hands, and just bang it out as quickly as you can.
Regardless, I would suggest laying our all of your options, with pros, cons, risks, and total out of pocket cost. Swapping, selling as is, whatever. Remember that your time is not free even if you don't pay yourself. Every hour on the car is an hour not on the house that needs work and an hour not getting paid for something else.
In reply to infinitenexus :
To concentrate on unberking you, I agree with the consensus. Take it to a reputable shop. Have them put an engine in with some kind of warranty. Sell a nicely detailed, running Mustang.
I don't think an AS IS sale will dig you out of your hole. Looks like you may have to dig deeper to get out. This sucks. But now you're doing damage control. You have my sympathies, but I know, you can't spend those. Hang in there. It will get better, just not right now.
I don't see how posting it on FB marketplace or Craigslist as is could hurt. See what the market says, you never know. If someone thinks it's worth $12k as is and you only need to come up with $4k to kiss it goodbye, why not at least post it up? If someone only offers $5k, you are not obligated to sell it to them. I'd take the 20 mins. to see.
Well, I guess the one positive is that my unemployment backpay is in the mail, and I should recieve it in 7-10 business days. That'll help a lot. Most places around here are closed for the holidays, so once they open I'll start making some phone calls and writing down my options.
I spoke of opportunity cost earlier in the thread. This sucks because it's worst case scenario. But the sooner you get a reputable shop to swap the engines and sell the vehicle to get out from under it, The sooner you're saving roughly $350 a month between payment and insurance.
That's the payoff on getting it fixed and being rid of it. It's cash flow, not current net assets. Sitting on it for a few months will cost you $1,000, as it's draining cashflow. Not to mention pressure will be mounting as it'll be one thing that still has to be contended with as a due date approaches. Once the mustang is gone, it will be like a Band-Aid has been ripped off and you will be able to focus on other things that are more important and more enjoyable within your life. It sucks that it's happened, but life is going to be so much more simple and enjoyable once it's gone. And thankfully it's a machine not a person.
In reply to infinitenexus :
Timing chains, cams, cam phasers, oil pump, intakes, harmonic balancer, lots of differences in the assembled engine. The heads and block will work although they have a different compression ratio. Car will be down on power from that, but will be running. The fact that you have metal running through the oiling system tells me that the correct way to replace the engine would be to replace all components that have oil flowing through them or else you'll be back in the same boat before you know it.
Steve_Jones said:
I don't see how posting it on FB marketplace or Craigslist as is could hurt. See what the market says, you never know. If someone thinks it's worth $12k as is and you only need to come up with $4k to kiss it goodbye, why not at least post it up? If someone only offers $5k, you are not obligated to sell it to them. I'd take the 20 mins. to see.
This ^ is what I would do. Easiest, fastest way out of it.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
12/24/20 12:11 p.m.
Listen to FatMongo.
I put a GM crate engine in the wife's Suburban a couple years ago.
I'm a mechanic, I do this stuff every day, I've rebuilt all kinds of weird and wonderful engines.
The fact that I can buy an off-the-shelf solution that comes with a warranty and is guaranteed to fit for for about $4K is well worth it, just for the lack of headache which is what you need right now.
A junkyard truck motor will likely need a bunch of crap swapped over from your engine to make it work properly, adding to the labour cost on an engine that really is an unknown.
Sometimes it's cheaper to pay to have the work done. The dealership or the shop that is the experts in this will get it done faster and cheaper than letting some backyard guy or mom-and-pop shop bumble through it.
FB is an option and I'll give it a shot. From a brief search the only situation like mine that I found was a 2012 with a few more miles than mine that was sold a few months ago. He got 5 grand for it. Big yikes.
Has anyone dealt with Car Part Planet? Pretty decent price on a 2012 Mustang Coyote and it comes with a warranty. Looks like if I ship it to a shop that can remove it from the truck with a forklift, then the shipping is free, too.
https://carpartplanet.com/used-2012-ford-mustang-engine-assembly.html
I'd guess the big question is what is it worth fixed? If it's $5k as is (ouch) but only $12k fixed (still ouch), are you paying more or less than $7k to fix it? No need to dump $x in to only get $x out.
That being said, I have no idea how figure out what it's worth fixed other than seeing what have sold for recently, in your market, and I can't imaging too many are trading hands just based on age at this point.
So the idea that Im trying to get across here is difficult to put in writing, but I think that OP is in the worst possible time and financial window to fix and sell this car - he is going to maximize his loss at both ends.
The truth of the matter is that it will be more than 3-5 years before a 6spd, Coyote car with less than 100k miles is below $10K. While he is going to lose money either way, it might not be the worst idea in the world to park the car, get the mimimum insurance on it, and continue to pay on it.
Lets say in 18 months he has a job and is in a better overall situation, he will be much close to being paid off on the car and at that time, he can afford to either sell it in its current state or fix it and drive a paid off car for a good long time.
Essentially, what Im saying is to push off the financial hit down the road. The longer he takes to face the financial hit, the more his fiscal situation should improve and the less harder the hit will take a bite.
I dont know if that makes sense, but if he 'punts' the situation for a year, he might defray some of the hit he needs to take when it comes time tok keep, fix, or sell.
In reply to FatMongo :
I do see the benefit you're describing. The first issue that comes to mind is that as soon as I complete this google IT certification course, I'm going to start applying for jobs in gainesville and jacksonville so we can get out of this area. I would need the car gone by then. Ideally, I would have everything done and would be moving around the end of next semester, so in roughly March or so.
FatMongo said:
So the idea that Im trying to get across here is difficult to put in writing, but I think that OP is in the worst possible time and financial window to fix and sell this car - he is going to maximize his loss at both ends.
The truth of the matter is that it will be more than 3-5 years before a 6spd, Coyote car with less than 100k miles is below $10K. While he is going to lose money either way, it might not be the worst idea in the world to park the car, get the mimimum insurance on it, and continue to pay on it.
Lets say in 18 months he has a job and is in a better overall situation, he will be much close to being paid off on the car and at that time, he can afford to either sell it in its current state or fix it and drive a paid off car for a good long time.
Essentially, what Im saying is to push off the financial hit down the road. The longer he takes to face the financial hit, the more his fiscal situation should improve and the less harder the hit will take a bite.
I dont know if that makes sense, but if he 'punts' the situation for a year, he might defray some of the hit he needs to take when it comes time tok keep, fix, or sell.
Not a bad idea. And the lender might be willing to do a payment pause. A 3 to 6 month break on payments would help take a lot of pressure out of the current situation.
In reply to FatMongo :
There's a lot of assumption on financial things improving. We know that the day-to-day life is going to get more expensive with a child coming. And if the monthly expense is currently $350 between car payment and insurance, You're robbing Peter to pay Paul and hurting cash flow in the process. He can't put just storage insurance on it as payments are being made, most financial institutions don't allow that it has to be full coverage. if the car was paid in full what you're suggesting makes sense, but it's not so it's a bad idea, and that's the stress of having to deal with something later. In 18 months he's looking to move out of the country. you don't want to have to be dealing with fixing a car that's sat around for nearly 2 years that you have no passion or energy for, when attempting to move out of the country with a toddler. Deal with it now swallow the lumps and move on.
That 350 a month in18 months is also $6,300. He's not going to save $6,300 in waiting to deal with it. In fact that $6,300 probably about pays for the engine replacement. So literally by doing it now, he saves the cost of the repair versus waiting.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
The original plan was to move to Canada in roughly that timeline but this situation is going to completely deplete my savings, so our timeline for moving there is now basically "well, hopefully before the kid starts school."
Once people open up after the holidays I'm going to start calling around and getting quotes. Once all my backpay gets here I'll have enough to do the engine swap, so I'll go ahead and do that and sell the car. It's a pretty e36m3 situation, but there's not really any way around it.
In reply to infinitenexus :
I understand that the move can get pushed back as other things have to be addressed situated and taking care of before moving forward. Having that additional cash flow moving forward, Will assist you in being able to move forward. I would also talk to your wife about this as this is family finances at this point. Taking the money coming from the state and immediately rolling it into an automotive repair may seem like you're being set back at square one. But if it enables you to promptly within 60 days start having an additional 350 or more dollars a month to your cash flow, then you'll be back to having that same lump at the 18 to 19 month mark. As opposed to having spent that money on maintaining ownership of a non-functional vehicle during that time frame. I suspect at this point that no longer having the vehicle will lift away in burden off of your collective shoulders. The Civic is also much easier and enjoyable to work on, and parts are inexpensive and plentiful.
In reply to infinitenexus :
I just saw slash reread the second paragraph. You've got the the right road map, it's been a rough go to navigate, but you're on the the right path to have it set up and resolved and to move on from it. I suspect that once it's all over, you will be a lot happier and rest easier and day to day life.
OP, relax, youre going to be ok.
Its Christmas Eve, go spend time with your pregnant wife. The car will wait.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
Just for a bit of clarification, the Mustang is $365/month plus insurance, which is around $100. So getting rid of this will definitely be a big load off my shoulders. It really does suck having to use all that back pay to fix a lemon, as that money was supposed to go towards our move and our future. But it's what has to be done. And as you said, getting rid of it will free up a ton of cash flow and basically make our current living situation affordable.
Oh side note, I got those Terro liquid ant baits that someone recommended earlier in this thread. It's been a few hours and they're already filled with tiny little sugar ants, so they're definitely working. It'll be great to have this house finally free from ants.
Sonic
UltraDork
12/24/20 5:31 p.m.
Another great ant solution is diatomaceous earth. It is basically very finely ground prehistoric sea shells. It cuts their exoskeleton and they dehydrate to death. It is also food safe and fine to put in pet beds, etc.
If you want to nuke them, put this stuff in a spray bottle and spray outside. We had ours more or less under control with the Terro for years, but they would always come back. Once I sprayed this we haven't had any in 9 months
https://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/taurus-sc-insecticide
Another problem is popping up. People are testing positive for Covid at my wife's work. She's pregnant and asthmatic so that's something we're trying to take very seriously and be very careful with. Unfortunately most people in this county aren't taking it seriously and don't think it's real. It's a e36 m3 situation. We can choose between money to put food on the table or her safety. I guess we'll start looking for remote jobs or something. I dunno.
