LM: Getting a (private) pilot license

Given that GRM knows everything...

I've been getting a bit burnt out on this motorsport thing - I'm going to make another effort in about six weeks to enjoy myself on the track, but it's beginning to look like I might want a break of indeterminate length. Not from playing with cars, but the organised motorsports part (moving to a massive SCCA region where I don't know anybody didn't help this raging introvert).

I've had a little training in gliders in the past and have been toying off and on to get a license, either for gilders or single engined planes. Single engine might make more sense for me, although I probably need to try that out first before making the final decision.

From my research it seems that a lot of people suggest getting the Sport Pilot cert first as a stepping stone, and as long as I had the right instructor the hours should count against a Private Pilot cert. Not interested in the recreational cert as I don't want to be tethered to a local airport that much.

From what I can see, the main "issue" with the Sport Pilot certificate is that I can only fly VFR in an LSA (which I haven't seen for rent around here - most of the planes available as rental are 172s or similar), but it's half the hours of the Private Pilot certificate. I know that I have to have the Private Pilot cert before I can even think about IFR. Anything else important that I'm missing?

IFR never appealed to me. Half the joy of flying was looking around.  If I had my own plane, using instruments to get somewhere would make more sense. 

Light sport is the way to go.  The 172 is too large, fast, ect... you need to look for Champs, Cubs, Luscombes. Or better yet, build your own. There are hundreds of homebuilts that qualify. Also, Light Sport lets you use your driver's license instead of a medical. 

Appleseed said:

IFR never appealed to me. Half the joy of flying was looking around.  If I had my own plane, using instruments to get somewhere would make more sense. 

I mostly look at IFR as a fallback in case I'd get caught by bad weather that's still OK to fly in, but not using VFR.

Light sport is the way to go.  The 172 is too large, fast, ect... you need to look for Champs, Cubs, Luscombes. Or better yet, build your own. There are hundreds of homebuilts that qualify. Also, Light Sport lets you use your driver's license instead of a medical. 

A Cub would be nice, but those are eeek expensive these days from what I've seen. Fortunately there are plenty of older planes that seem to qualitfy that would making owning a plane within reasonable reach. I'll have to look a bit more into local-ish plane rentals, right now it almost looks like the choice is getting the PPL if I want to rent a plane, or getting the Sport Pilot cert and have my own moneypit, err, plane.

Edit: Looks like I confused Super Cubs and Cubs. Cub J-3s seem to be much more affordable.

As to building one, I'm not sure the world needs another smoking crater this bad .

FYI

FAA Is discussing changing the requirements for Sport Pilots, mainly changing the gross weight limit.  It may be a couple of years before that happens.  

If you are looking for cheap factory built, Aeronica Champs and Luscombes are relatively cheap.

In reply to Appleseed :

Thanks - Aeronica Champs, their side-by-side equivalent (Chief?) had been on my, err, rader, as were Ercoupes. I'll add the Luscombes as well.

Spend 25 large in 2 years and wind up with a 70 year old airplane worth 22 large.  Seems like a good idea to me.

In reply to Dr. Hess :

Almost like a lot of the cars people around here build, although those don't tend to fall out of the sky .

But that's one of the reasons why renting appeals.

Yes, the comparison to our cars is great.  I sometimes think about selling all the cars and buying an airplane, but then the desire for a hole in the sky to throw money into passes, and I don't think Dr.Linda would go for airplane rides.  She's bad enough in high performance car rides.

In reply to Dr. Hess :

If people re-built planes to make money, nobody would re-build planes. 

https://www.sonexaircraft.com/onex/

Folding wings and aerobatic rated, VW power

No license no insurance

In reply to bentwrench :

Don't show me that E36 M3.

In reply to bentwrench :

IIRC you still have to have a Sport Pilot certificate to fly one.

I've been in many, flown a few power planes but do not have a license for it.  I'm a glider pilot with a motor glider endorsement.

Starting from scratch, fly power takes about $9,000 to get to solo according to the local trainers.  Once Certified, if you don't own a craft, you rent one; ask at the desk.  YMMV as I belong to a soaring club (cheaper), but it's $500 to join.  For that you get free instruction and use of a 35:1 glider, just pay for the tows (~$30.)  Commercial operations are more expensive, like $200/hour.  Again, YMMV.

If you buy a plane, will it sleep inside?  If not, stay away from Cubs, Champs, Citabria etc., a heavy rain or bit of hail will have you recovering.  Three of us recovered and painted an Aeronca Champ, took two winters; in exchange for the labor the owner will let us use the plane for out power license.  I won't do that again no matter the enticement.

Motorglider endosement can be done by any instructor with the endorsement (we have 6).  To go from a glider pilot to Light Sport, it takes about 20 flights.  Rules are different-stricter than a full Cert.  Yeah, you can't fly at night and it's all VFR, but that works for me and what I want to do with a plane.  Sunny morning, grab the wife and head to the lake for breakfast, then tour the Green Mountains for a few hours.  Our son lives in Connecticut, 3+ hours away by car, two in the Grob, no traffic. 

To leap from glider endorsement to power, you need XXX hours, a cross country flight and a night flight.  Read the rules and figure out how you would use a plane.  I don't think BentWrench is correct, if it leaves the ground you need something.  In the 1980s when I hang glided (hang glode?) the USHGA divorced themselves from anything with an engine because the FAA was encroaching on the fun.

Grob 109.

My ship cruises at 100 kts, uses 2.5 GPH with a 600 mile range.  More roomy than my friend's 170.

Oh yeah, my birthday is Saturday and I like Ercoupes.  Some are LSA, others are not.

Thank you.

You do not need any license to fly a legit ultralight.   Doesn’t mean it’s smart to not have any instruction.  

Correct me if I am wrong.  

In reply to spitfirebill :

Looks like that's exactly what the FFA regs part 103.7b suggest, yes.

But to clarify, I was talking about LSA (light sport aircraft), which is a different category than an ultralight that makes bigger holes in the scenery if you get it wrong.

Last night I flew with Tim to Lake Placid in a motor glider.  Damn thing cruises at 130 knts.    Yowzah!

In reply to BoxheadTim :

I’m sitting here with slightly over 1000 hours on my log book and remember the joy of learning to fly. Then learning to land on an aircraft carrier.  

The thrill of those terror filled moments where things were going bad really fast with no solution left. An airplane that suddenly in the mountains decided to turn into a rough running  paperweight leaving me try to fly on ground effects in a rapidly closing box canyon.  Trying to gauge if the props would clear the valley floor in time to allow me to semi glide to the airport.  

Being forced to RTB ( return to base ) due to weather suddenly changing. Base was 1:30 away and calculations allowed zero fuel reserves 22 minutes from base.  The joy of having the port engine windmill on touchdown with the starboard engine following as I turned off the duty.  

The failure of a heat seeking missile  to lock onto the exhaust of the S2E  and the pleasure of an Albanian made Shell failing to explode  in  the parachute I sat on. 

Another fuel scare when too many planes returned and the ship overwhelmed switching between Jets and piston engine planes. Sending me back into the pattern on Bingo fuel 3 times. 

I offered my wings to the CO following that incident. Since I’d had more hours and flights than anyone in the squadron he refused them and gave me a week to reconsider ( My tour was up in 4 days  so I never had to fly again anyway ) 

Since then I’ve had to screw up my courage for every flight. 

My point is,  flying can and will get terrifying sooner or later.  Most pilots either get past those incidents and accept the challenges or just stop. 

It’s very expensive to defy gravity. A casual interest shouldn’t be sufficient.  Rather a simple burning desire that you use excuses to justify 

frenchyd said:

My point is,  flying can and will get terrifying sooner or later.  Most pilots either get past those incidents and accept the challenges or just stop. 

It’s very expensive to defy gravity. A casual interest shouldn’t be sufficient.  Rather a simple burning desire that you use excuses to justify 

Speaking from a position with many, many fewer hours and being a couple decades away from the last time I took the stick, I concur entirely. Even in the process of getting my license I had high pucker factor moments.

Doing a long cross-country with a cloud deck that kept dropping and left me a hundred feet (if that) to clear ridge lines in northern Vermont. Oh, and one of my wheel brakes wasn't working on that flight, so landing on short fields, which they all were, was entertaining.

Or flying into a regional airport with maybe five hours in my book after I'd soloed for the first time, getting bounced around the pattern due to traffic, ending up a few hundred feet high (entirely my fault - trying to pay attention to too many things), and being told as I turned final to hold short of the crossing runway for departing traffic. Slipping a 172 with full flaps creates an interesting set of vibrations and noises as you get close to stall speed, which is where I had to be to get down and hold short. I did it, which was a good thing, because the United 737 that took off in front of me would have won that fight.

On the flip side, one of my fondest memories is hanging upside-down from my straps 3000 feet over the Pacific Ocean in the front seat of a T-6 with the canopy open. That wouldn't have happened without my license.

When it's great, it's great, but when it goes wrong - and it will - you need to know how to handle it.

In reply to 02Pilot :

I have to admit a few moments of terror were my own fault. I messed up.   

The biggest was a classmate of mine who was selected for fighters while I got ASW 

He flew a Spad ( A1D ) I flew a S2F. 

He wanted multi engine time I wanted to feel a fighter. Both piston engine both powered by Wright radials. I had  3050 horsepower he had only 2700 

Mine had a pair of engines,  His had only one.  

We switched seats for his flight and I talked him through anything he had questions on.  3 hours later he returned to a nice 3 point touch down.  I spent most of the previous night studying the NATOPS  so I was convinced I had everything cold.  

The prime difference between the two planes is the SPAD is a single seater( at least his was)  oh and take off with a S2E is a fairly calm affair. Power full props full and mixture full forward.  

24,000 pounds gets off the runway in a straight forward fashion. 

Not a Spad!  

That thing was like a 427 Cobra on steroids. I quickly figured out full rudder was called for and even adrenaline filled leg power won’t prevent that thing from doing it’s level best to try to bend around and bite my butt.  Moments after giving me clearance the tower watched me weave all over the runway  like a drunk. Asking me if I was declaring an emergency. 

I wont go into details about my 22 minute flight except to say fighter pilots have a giant Brass pair of ‘em.  The whole 22 minutes I never caught up to the plane. ( the landing looked picture perfect but was the plane, not me). 

Dr. Hess said:

In reply to bentwrench :

Don't show me that E36 M3.

What's eating you Hess?

Nobody has asked OP what he's interested in doing with airplanes?

I'm also interested in what he's done with cars, and why he is currently burned out?

In reply to gencollon :

Lemme 'splain it for you:  Don't show me that E36 M3. BECAUSE I LIKE IT AND MIGHT THINK ABOUT GETTING ONE/INTO THAT. THE SUB THIRTY LARGE IS TOO TEMPTING FOR SUCH AN INTERESTING TOY.  YOU CAN'T HARDLY GET A (running) USED LOTUS FOR THAT.

Do you understand now?  Should I 'splain it further?

In reply to frenchyd :

The only thing I ever got to fly with any real power was that T-6, and that was tame compared to what you were dealing with, but the twist of that big radial still caught me off-guard on takeoff. Thankfully it settled down once we were up. The two flights I had in that plane were probably the best I'll ever have.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Well aware of that.  My post was for someone who said you needed a license to fly anything that leaves the ground.  

I’m surprised you can fly cross country with a Sport Pilot license but not with the Recreational Pilot license which takes more hrs to get (30 hrs vs 20 hrs). Yet you can fly a larger more powerful aircraft.