Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?
Not really, but it's also not OK to treat healthcare like some kind of commodity in the first place.
Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?
Not really, but it's also not OK to treat healthcare like some kind of commodity in the first place.
In reply to Kenny_McCormic:
Don't kid yourself. Healthcare is a commodity whether it is supplied by someone motivated by profit or someone constrained by budget.
bentwrench wrote: Be prepared for health care prices to go up 20% next year......
So funny you mention that. I'm paying nearly 5x what I used to pay while only adding my wife and later a baby to the plan. While my deductible increased by nearly 3x what it used to be and added individual deductibles in addition to the family one.
What was so bad about opening the healthcare market across state lines? Or going with the proven Swiss model of capping individual procedures instead of just making up numbers which the healthcare conglomerate is just going to negotiate down to something almost sane anyway?
The other effect you probably aren't seeing if you aren't just starting out is the effect on entry level employment. Pretty much everything short of factory/heavy industry and skilled jobs is now part time. Food service, janitorial, customer service/retail sales, you name it, its part time now.
Datsun1500 wrote:wbjones wrote:An insurance company will not cover something that existed before you came to them for insurance. What don't I understand? If I have a car with damage, I can't buy full coverage insurance then demand they fix it, why should medical care be different?Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?I think there's something about pre-existing conditions that you don't understand …
But if I am deemed "fixed".... What is the difference?
Datsun1500 wrote:wbjones wrote:An insurance company will not cover something that existed before you came to them for insurance. What don't I understand? If I have a car with damage, I can't buy full coverage insurance then demand they fix it, why should medical care be different?Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?I think there's something about pre-existing conditions that you don't understand …
There's a bit of a difference between a hunk of metal and a living, breathing person. I dealt with an inguinal hernia for the better part of 10 years because i couldn't afford insurance.
I don't think the ACA is perfect but the health care industry price gouging people who are uninsured/underinsured isn't either. How ridiculous is it that people delay seeing a doctor, sometimes suffering dire consequences, because it costs too much money?
ACA act and everything aside, how is health coverage not a given in a first world nation?
PubBurgers wrote:Datsun1500 wrote:There's a bit of a difference between a hunk of metal and a living, breathing person. I dealt with an inguinal hernia for the better part of 10 years because i couldn't afford insurance. I don't think the ACA is perfect but the health care industry price gouging people who are uninsured/underinsured isn't either. How ridiculous is it that people delay seeing a doctor, sometimes suffering dire consequences, because it costs too much money? ACA act and everything aside, how is health coverage not a given in a first world nation?wbjones wrote:An insurance company will not cover something that existed before you came to them for insurance. What don't I understand? If I have a car with damage, I can't buy full coverage insurance then demand they fix it, why should medical care be different?Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?I think there's something about pre-existing conditions that you don't understand …
I think what he means is that no one should be forced to pay because someone else lost the genetic lottery.
http://www.crouse.org/prices/
Yup
I have had three kids in three different states all with pretty good employer sponsored health plans. The price differences have been staggering. I don't know why one hospital charges for something when someone else charges y. I haven't seen a difference in the care we have received. If pressed I'd say the care at the cheaper smaller hospitals was better.
Kenny_McCormic wrote:Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?Not really, but it's also not OK to treat healthcare like some kind of commodity in the first place.
You and every other first world nation (except the usa) agree on this concept of caring for our fellow human beings.
Maybe I spend too much time eating patchouli and farting rainbows but I don't see why health care should cost anyone any money whatsoever (taxes aside). How we as a species decided that profiting from healthcare took precedence over treating people boggles my mind.
$14K is more money than I'll gross this year, I find it insane that health care is that expensive.
In 2014 there will be $XXX in healcare used in the USA. All of that will be paid for somehow. The drugs will be paid for, the doctors will be paid, the lights will be on. The question is, how do we as a society want to pay for it? We've already decided that old people and poor people get a pass because they can't afford their own health care. That leaves everyone else. How do we do it? Do you pay yourself? Do you hope your employer catches it? Do you gamble that nothing really bad happens until you make it to the old people group?
Remember, all of the health care distributed this year is going to be paid for one way or another, every dollar is coming from someone's pocket.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I don't know why one hospital charges for something when someone else charges y. I haven't seen a difference in the care we have received. If pressed I'd say the care at the cheaper smaller hospitals was better.
At a bit of a risk of revealing that I do read Consumer Reports. The last issue, with the shopping cart full of boxes on the front of it, had a bit on medical care. The take away was that pricing at hospitals and doctors offices are basically made up on the spot. They do this because they know the health insurance is going to negotiate the price down anyway so numbers are just tossed out there as a starting point.
Health insurance isn't so much calamity insurance anymore as it is a collective bargaining scheme. According to CR that's why prices started running away, every hospital in the area needs that super expensive ultra specialized machine, and doctors buy into MRI machines because then they can toss around even more absurd numbers and attempt to reap money that would go to another hospital or doctor.
Me? I don't know what the answer is because things often have a larger ripple effect than I'm capable of predicting (or our elected representatives.) All I know is that the premium hurts like hell given the drastic increases and having a baby was pretty expensive but not as expensive as I thought it would be.
bentwrench wrote: Be prepared for health care prices to go up 20% next year......
Well that of course is because the evil republicans who hate poor people did.... uuhhh ... something..
Without them we would have a regular Shangri La
PubBurgers wrote: Maybe I spend too much time eating patchouli and farting rainbows but I don't see why health care should cost anyone any money whatsoever (taxes aside). How we as a species decided that profiting from healthcare took precedence over treating people boggles my mind. $14K is more money that I'll gross this year, I find it insane that health care is that expensive.
You ain't seen nothin' yet; my current policy is about $14k for my daughter and I.
As far as payout, so far my cancer stuff has gone over $38k, the bad part of that is I have no way of knowing what the true cost is because the EOB's (Explanation of Benefits) are vague and include numbers that just make no sense. Like a $2112.00 charge for chemo which the insurance company paid $183.00 for and somehow I owe nothing for it. That's been done 4 times since all this crap started, there's some fantasy BS going on out there.
Something I learned way back when: if a huge discount is given early in negotiations, the person paying the bill is going to suddenly be very wary; were they just being screwed at the outset?
I'm at the point where I believe we will have no choice but to go to a single payer system. I hate government intervention in a lot of stuff but we may not be able to keep things going otherwise.
Datsun1500 wrote:wbjones wrote:An insurance company will not cover something that existed before you came to them for insurance. What don't I understand? If I have a car with damage, I can't buy full coverage insurance then demand they fix it, why should medical care be different?Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?I think there's something about pre-existing conditions that you don't understand …
That's not a direct apple-apple.
A direct apple-apple would be "we're replacing your rear bumper because you were rear ended. If you get rear ended again we're going to tell you to go berkeley yourself."
PubBurgers wrote: Maybe I spend too much time eating patchouli and farting rainbows but I don't see why health care should cost anyone any money whatsoever (taxes aside). How we as a species decided that profiting from healthcare took precedence over treating people boggles my mind. $14K is more money than I'll gross this year, I find it insane that health care is that expensive.
A doctors labor is not your right.
Swank Force One wrote:Datsun1500 wrote:That's not a direct apple-apple. A direct apple-apple would be "we're replacing your rear bumper because you were rear ended. If you get rear ended again we're going to tell you to go berkeley yourself."wbjones wrote:An insurance company will not cover something that existed before you came to them for insurance. What don't I understand? If I have a car with damage, I can't buy full coverage insurance then demand they fix it, why should medical care be different?Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?I think there's something about pre-existing conditions that you don't understand …
How about,
If you keep getting rear ended, we are not going to pay for your colostomy bag?
Sure, or that.
Ranger50 wrote:Datsun1500 wrote:But if I am deemed "fixed".... What is the difference?wbjones wrote:An insurance company will not cover something that existed before you came to them for insurance. What don't I understand? If I have a car with damage, I can't buy full coverage insurance then demand they fix it, why should medical care be different?Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to patgizz: So it's ok to have no insurance, get sick, then buy it and expect them to cover it?I think there's something about pre-existing conditions that you don't understand …
ins. co. are now required to cover pre-existing conditions … that's the part I was thinking you were "not understanding"
and prior to this change, you could change companies, your company could change coverage … you could easily get screwed and the diabetes/heart disease/cancer/... etc would no longer be covered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVlXTEB0T0U#t=36
This is going to be a ongoing nightmare
Sine_Qua_Non wrote: This is going to be a ongoing nightmare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2zJOryHKQ
ronholm wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVlXTEB0T0U#t=36
YEah... Sorry...
But wouldn't a better question be,
I there anyone NOT getting screwing by the "healthcare market place"?
ronholm wrote: YEah... Sorry... But wouldn't a better question be, I there anyone NOT getting screwing by the "healthcare market place"?
I'm not. I pay less in my employer sponsored plan and get more back. We just a got a nice Breast Pump covered 100% due to the ACA requirements. I also know some folks who couldn't get insurance that now have it.
Is it perfect.. not really.
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