Retirement

stuart in mn said:

In reply to dculberson :

Thankfully, I do have a very good financial advisor.  

The way I see this game played, unless the word “Fiduciary” is on the business card and contract, a financial adviser’s paid job is to do things  with your money until it becomes his  and his employer’s money. To this goal he is held accountable by his employers.

The word “Fiduciary” is just Latin for “I am going to pretend otherwise”. 

Pete

I didn't take the time to read all of this thread, but it probably isn't necessary. I can tell you that from my perspective, retirement is spectacular. I went out four  years ago (end of March, 2014) and it was the best move. I was 65 at the time. Summer of '16 Annie went out. She was 65 at the time. We both love retirement. We're financially prepared, both had successful, albeit stressful careers, and happy to be off the treadmill. We will never work again. Our days are filled with the things we want to do. Every day is an adventure , and we have the resources to sustain our adventures ... and anything else we want to do or purchase. As my friends and colleagues in Italy told me when I retired, "now it's your time." And yes, it is!

My reccomendation is to have a financial plan, start early, and stick to it.

At 45, looking back, I married the wrong woman, bought the wrong house at the wrong time, divorced the right woman, etc.  Basically, I've been berkeleying up my retirement since I was 21.  Not looking very good for my retirement at the moment.  

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :

Of course you’re right! I should’ve checked before posting that. 

https://www.healthcare.gov/income-and-household-information/income/

clear as day. 

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

Work in a biblical sense is not necessarily the same as work in the modern sense. Ie working for an income is likely not what god had in mind with Adam and the garden of eden. Working your land, working on your home, etc is actually more in line with that. 

I'll probably die at work. Back in 08 when I was laid off I blew my 401k payback building a turbo mustang because young and dumb, spent 3 years working whatever job I could find because I became a parent. Now I'm 31 and before this current medical leave we just started rebuilding our savings after paying off credit card debt. Luckily I purchased my house in 2012 with a great interest rate and very cheap overall price. The plan is to double up the primary monthly and be out of debt before I turn 45. Let's see how it works out! 

dculberson said:

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

Work in a biblical sense is not necessarily the same as work in the modern sense. Ie working for an income is likely not what god had in mind with Adam and the garden of eden. Working your land, working on your home, etc is actually more in line with that. 

Anymore, and I think that the biblical narrative (which is repeated in many other ways) is used to convince us that we should still work hard for peanuts so that someone else can make a lot of money.  Which is very tiresome.  I'd rather work for enjoyment and my family and/or community.  That way it would not be a burden on my soul.

That ignores the line of people who work and work and work for more and more and more money.  And then never use it.

Some of that reasoning is why there are so many who face such long working careers just to support themselves.

alfadriver said:

dculberson said:

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

Work in a biblical sense is not necessarily the same as work in the modern sense. Ie working for an income is likely not what god had in mind with Adam and the garden of eden. Working your land, working on your home, etc is actually more in line with that. 

Anymore, and I think that the biblical narrative (which is repeated in many other ways) is used to convince us that we should still work hard for peanuts so that someone else can make a lot of money.  Which is very tiresome.  I'd rather work for enjoyment and my family and/or community.  That way it would not be a burden on my soul.

That ignores the line of people who work and work and work for more and more and more money.  And then never use it.

Some of that reasoning is why there are so many who face such long working careers just to support themselves.

Fear is why some people slave for wages.  Some long  past any reasonable logic would indicate.  However before you judge others might I remind you of another biblical quote?  

Judge not least yee be judged.  

In reply to frenchyd :

LOL, that's pretty funny, coming from you.  Especially since I'm not quoting the bible, but the idea that we are being convinced to work for pennies all to benefit someone else.

The housing bubble burst in southern Ohio much earlier than it seemed to hit the rest of the country. It was like someone flipped a light switch and all of a sudden the company I worked for was in serious trouble and was out of business in 06. What little bit of retirement I had allowed us to keep the house for nearly a year before it was obvious I wasnt going to find a job and we weren't going to be able to keep the house. 

I found a job in TN and shortly after my wife moved down she got pregnant. Since then I haven't worked for a company that offered a 401k and we've basically been living paycheck to paycheck. I'm currently making what I was making back in 2000. Saving for retirement is a pipe dream.

In reply to alfadriver : I happen to agree with your premise.  However I also agree that real work has it’s own rewards( beyond the money ) 

Maybe the difference is as we age we should find work we find rewarding in other ways? Spiritually  but not necessarily  in a religious sense? 

I know I enjoyed my job in sales because I honestly went about helping people.  I didn’t try to sell them stuff I tried to help them be more profitable and successful.  As a result the money followed nicely.  

Some people do jobs they don’t like just for a paycheck.  But doesn’t that diminish them?   

Nick Comstock said:

The housing bubble burst in southern Ohio much earlier than it seemed to hit the rest of the country. It was like someone flipped a light switch and all of a sudden the company I worked for was in serious trouble and was out of business in 06. What little bit of retirement I had allowed us to keep the house for nearly a year before it was obvious I wasnt going to find a job and we weren't going to be able to keep the house. 

I found a job in TN and shortly after my wife moved down she got pregnant. Since then I haven't worked for a company that offered a 401k and we've basically been living paycheck to paycheck. I'm currently making what I was making back in 2000. Saving for retirement is a pipe dream.

I understand where you’ve been.  My only suggestion is to try to keep your head up looking for opportunity. 

Loyalty is what we all try to do but as you’ve seen everyone first looks out for themselves.  While you’re working see if you can spot a opportunity. Maybe it’s night and evening work at first or working for another company?  Talk to those outside your typical friends.

 When I was a salesman selling to the trades a number of people asked for help and guidance.  I was always eager to help if I could and several completely changed their lives.  

Before I retired I would see retirees and they say "I don't know how the hell I had time to go to work!"  My only fear upon getting the opportunity was, what the heck am I going to do?  Winters are tougher, but there's plenty going on. 

To Frenchy, I really enjoyed my work, think CSI metallography.  Something different every day; it took a year or so getting used to not leaving the house at 5:30 am but I'm OK with it now.

Embrace the change.  Good luck.

Dan

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm not diminishing people, I'm diminishing the system.  And how sayings like the ones in the bible are used more to benefit others. 

Is that really not clear?

It's a system that values people like Nick so poorly that he's living paycheck to paycheck.  And we are supposed to appreciate that he's got a job.  Is that really the right way of looking at things?  It's a system where many people are forced to work until they die, barely able to really enjoy being alive.  Mostly so that other people can profit, and we are told that you should be thankful for that.  Doesn't seem like a great system.  

If you want to be a work-a-holic- that's fine.  I'm not talking about you.

For what it's worth, retirement can be a state of mind.  Money , health benefits are big drivers.  Some find solace in being part of a team, or money is the driving force.   You have to be comfortable in your own skin.  We were lucky, in that my wife and I had City jobs with pensions, and health benefits.  Sure we spent a TON of money on our kids education, and setting them up when they moved out.  But, they are successful, which makes us successful.

I lost a few close friends early on, they had stressful high paying jobs.  At what cost?  Be comfortable in what you do, whether it's work/career, or being retired.  There's a butt for every seat.

Hal said:

I retired the first time in 1994 at age 51 after 28 years of teaching.  

<snip>

I had always planned on retiring from teaching at 30 years so I planned the finances accordingly.  I started getting my teachers retirement as soon as I retired. 

Side note:  I was talking to some friends that are teachers.  Their retirement benefits are *nuts*.  I contribute **heavily** to retirement accounts/savings and earn a good wage.  I will struggle to achieve a retirement even close to what they are looking at.

alfadriver said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm not diminishing people, I'm diminishing the system.  And how sayings like the ones in the bible are used more to benefit others. 

Is that really not clear?

It's a system that values people like Nick so poorly that he's living paycheck to paycheck.  And we are supposed to appreciate that he's got a job.  Is that really the right way of looking at things?  It's a system where many people are forced to work until they die, barely able to really enjoy being alive.  Mostly so that other people can profit, and we are told that you should be thankful for that.  Doesn't seem like a great system.  

If you want to be a work-a-holic- that's fine.  I'm not talking about you.

I think communicating on the internet leads to confusion more than clarity. 

We both agree that some ( many?)  people are undervalued both economically and benefit wise. I realize this treads remarkably close to a political statement but perhaps we could learn from Europe.  

Germany for example gives a person a 2 year  paid sabbatical  to do as you wish.  Plus an income higher than most other countries.  Free health care and personal benefits that go with the person rather than are lost with each job change. 

Scandinavian countries  with their high taxes provide benefits so well they make their people happier than countries with massively lower taxes including America. Their schools are in the top so their citizens are highly prized by employees.  

Most European countries teach school children to eat healthy food by making it taste well. American kids are fed cheap food and as a result obesity is prevalent music sports and shop are sacrificed on the alter of cheap.   

ProDarwin said:

Hal said:

I retired the first time in 1994 at age 51 after 28 years of teaching.  

<snip>

I had always planned on retiring from teaching at 30 years so I planned the finances accordingly.  I started getting my teachers retirement as soon as I retired. 

Side note:  I was talking to some friends that are teachers.  Their retirement benefits are *nuts*.  I contribute **heavily** to retirement accounts/savings and earn a good wage.  I will struggle to achieve a retirement even close to what they are looking at.

Yes, my teacher's retirement is very good but I contributed 7% of my gross salary for all 28 years to get it.  And as another side note: For the last 20 years before we retired we did out best to live on one income and invest the other.  It worked so well that we are still doing it in retirement.

Frenchy My Man, I already posted my thoughts, but double thumbs up to you for initiating a great thread. Five pages of well-informed posts is impressive. Congratulations!

alfadriver said:

In reply to frenchyd :

LOL, that's pretty funny, coming from you.  Especially since I'm not quoting the bible, but the idea that we are being convinced to work for pennies all to benefit someone else.

 

Speaking of that. You Betta have my money. 

NOHOME said:

stuart in mn said:

In reply to dculberson :

Thankfully, I do have a very good financial advisor.  

The way I see this game played, unless the word “Fiduciary” is on the business card and contract, a financial adviser’s paid job is to do things  with your money until it becomes his  and his employer’s money. To this goal he is held accountable by his employers.

The word “Fiduciary” is just Latin for “I am going to pretend otherwise”. 

 

Pete

Fortunately, my experience with my advisor has been much better than yours - I'm not a particularly aggressive investor, but even so my funds have done quite well.

stuart in mn said:

In reply to dculberson :

Thankfully, I do have a very good financial advisor.  

Blind monkey.

 During the past 5 years “A blind monkey throwing darts could pick out winning stocks”. , Sorry I don’t remember who to attribute that quote to . But decades ago when I first was looking to get some financial advisor help I ran into that. 

I also discovered that less than 5% of all Financial. Advisors consistently beat  the DOW over a 5 year period. 

That’s been my standard.  The DOW !  whoever you are getting advice from should have a record of beating the DOW consistently for the past 10 years.  

 Fell victim to my own greed and the advice of a financial advisor in the fall of 1987. Bye bye money. It sure was a fun trip. But I paid for a very hard lesson.  

Later that year I started over.   This time managing my own retirement account.  I simply bet the DOW, actually I bought the diamonds and regularly transferred my 401k income into my Diamonds IRA account.  

About 2000 I put 10% in REITs Feeling the need to diversify.  And up until 2006 they beat the DOW by over 7%. 

But by the time I was forced to dispose of my accounts they’d returned to par with the DOW.  

I did a “what if” last  night and had I been able to keep my DOW and REITs  I’d be just over1&1/2 million but I’d have to start drawing it down.  

According to my actuarial  I should plan on taking it all out over the next 14 years. That would give me just over $9000 a month plus and plus. That would leave me with my social security and retirement.  Enough to survive with a degree of comfort since at 84 it’s hard to spend money without wasting it.  

Very interesting to see who has what benefits provided. 

I can tell you from working in healthcare, usually for large hospital systems, that I'll be working until Medicare kicks in most likely, whenever that is by the time I get to that age.

Most careers nowadays do not provide health benefits in retirement. No nurses get them, I know that much. I'm guessing most who still get health benefits in retirement are unionized labor, but I wouldn't count on that benefit being around much longer in any field given the astronomical costs to companies.

I'll keep praying for universal healthcare that is divorced from employment. 

Erich said:

Very interesting to see who has what benefits provided. I

I can tell you from working in healthcare, usually for large hospital systems, that I'll be working until Medicare kicks in most likely, whenever that is by the time I get to that age.

Most careers nowadays do not provide health benefits in retirement. No nurses get them, I know that much. I'm guessing most who still get health benefits in retirement are unionized labor, but I wouldn't count on that benefit being around much longer in any field given the astronomical costs to companies.

I'll keep praying for universal healthcare that is divorced from employment. 

Yes ! Yes! Yes! 

Most of the civilized world has them. In fact I suspect if the unions had insisted on wage increases in line with profits instead of accepting benefits instead of wage increases. America would have what the rest of the world already has.  

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

I’m one of those government guys.  So a mix of pension, TSP, and social security will fund my golden years.  Probably at around 60 but that isn’t written in stone.  (I do wish i’d Stayed active duty back in the day, there would already be a retirement check coming in.  Sigh)

 

You aren’t the only one who wishes he’d stay the 19&6 I’ve got a few friends who double dipped and one who triple dipped.  He just retired at 74 from the Air Force, Federal government, and county.