Street habits lead to track habits

I thought I'd see if I could generate some discussion about a topic that frustrates me... What I see performance and race drivers do is practice bad habits on the street. I wasn’t the first to say, “Practice doesn’t make perfect – only perfect practice makes perfect.” Drivers who practice the wrong things on the street then have to use some amount of brain power changing these things when they get on the track – and that brain power could be used for better things. Am I wrong? Does it make a difference?

Example?

Brake application. Smooth is one thing, but on the street, I brake very differently from on the track. It's been too long since I last hit the track, but it always takes me half a session or more to get the proper technique through my head.

As the men's volleyball coach for the USSR used to say "Practice makes permanent"

They were never allowed to play at less than full on power. It was frustrating playing against them as they'd knock you on your a$$ even when it was a "friendly" game.

I lost more glasses playing them.

In reply to Appleseed: Example?

Something as simple as driving with one hand on the steering wheel and one resting on the shifter. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to remind a driver to use 2 hands on the wheel in the middle of turn. Or, looking just at the taillights of the car in front on them on the street and then having to remind themselves to look further ahead on the track. Or, as Peter says, brake application (typically, on the street, drivers brake harder as they get closer to the stopping point; on the track our pedal pressure should be reversed). Or...

In reply to Ross_Bentley:

The answer is simple: figure out ways to practice track habits on the street. The examples you gave are both bad habits for street driving.

Driving on the street, I keep my scan of traffic going and try to look around/ through the car ahead of me to anticipate what all the traffic around me is doing. Same with braking, I brake harder initially and soften it up as I approach my stop to not get the sudden jerk.

Simple concepts like smooth inputs and pressing or squeezing the brakes and throttle (rather than stomping them), can also be practiced on the street.

Of course, not everything is exactly the same. Fact of life is, I drive more on the street. I need to drive on the street, I don't need to drive on the track. If I develop less than perfect habits for the track because driving safely on the street is a priority for me, BFD.

Sure, you can learn some less than ideal habits, but I don't see a direct conflict to learning good track habits. That's like saying that the way I normally walk will teach me habits that make it harder for me to be a good dancer.

I'm going to disagree with the notion that the two are any more closely related than catch is to baseball.

What I'm trying to say - is that your brain does separate the two and have two different muscle memory "programs" it runs.

When I get to the track, I get strapped in and breathe, run down the check list and when the engine fires I am in race car mode. At DEs with a student ride-along, at open track days and w2w racing. Same intensity. I never drive a lap at less than 85% of my best effort and then only to heat up the tires/brakes, check the track conditions or limp back to the pits. It's either flat out sprint race pace or 5% less to save tires if it's a long run.

It is safe to say that if my brain didn't have a distinction between operating a vehicle and racing one - I'd be in prison for a million counts of reckless endangerment. Law enforcement rarely rewards exhibitions of superior car control :)

For the most part, I try to look far ahead on the street - it helps me see what the idiot ahead of me is going to see at the last minute, and I start slowing down sooner). It's easy to get sucked into Bumper Vision on the day-to-day.

Driving The Lethal Locost also forces me to look way ahead and all around - the car isn't all that visible amongst the moronic masses.

I also try to pick and follow my "ideal" line on the street. I can't drive 9/10ths, but I can visualize, point and aim the vehicle and see how smooth I can take the corners. The Hideous Hardbody (my daily) needs smooth.

I had a lot of inspiration in doing this from a book I read from some Bentley dude a couple years ago. ;)

While I've not been on a track yet, I do know my street braking habits are hard to break when I autocross. I tend to brake as little as possible on the street and coast as much as I can when approaching a stop I see ahead. This technique, while great for fuel mileage and brake wear, is not so good when trying to get through a course as fast as possible.

Ian F wrote: While I've not been on a track yet, I do know my street braking habits are hard to break when I autocross. I tend to brake as little as possible on the street and coast as much as I can when approaching a stop I see ahead. This technique, while great for fuel mileage and brake wear, is not so good when trying to get through a course as fast as possible.

Sure, but examples like this are more exception than rule. Learning to panic brake like on a track is muscle memory that needs to be learned. If you have not yet learned it, you'll use the muscle memory you already have until you do. Practicing one set of muscle memory more than another won't cancel it out.

To use the baseball/catch analogy, that's like saying a pitcher will lose the ability to throw a fastball because he's spending too much time practicing throwing to teammates at base.

Your ability to brake hard on track is going to diminish because it's not being used often enough, not because you've been using another skill. If you want them to stay sharp, you need to keep practicing them. We amateur sportscar drivers are at a disadvantage from all other amateur athletes. If you really want to build skills, you need to be practicing them 3+ times per week. Most of us would be really lucky to practice full out 3 times per month.

To put it another way, I don't think I've ever heard an F1/NASCAR/Indy/etc. driver say "I need to hire a new chauffeur because I need to preserve my driving skills for actually racing." No, they get the practice they need. Driving on the street doesn't diminish their skills.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: You may be able to switch back and forth, but many drivers carry over some of the most basic habits from the street and onto the track. I'm not talking about having to drive fast on the street - that's definitely not the point. But if every driver can make the switch, then why do so many drive on the track with one hand on the shifter, with low-aim vision, with inappropriate braking forces, with the wrong timing of shifts, with feet riding the pedals?

So, if a major league baseball player played catch every single day holding the ball wrong, twisting his body in the wrong way, with the wrong foot in front of the other, with his glove facing the wrong direction... would that impact the way he played on the field? Even just a little bit?

Fun discussion!

Ross_Bentley wrote: You may be able to switch back and forth, but many drivers carry over some of the most basic habits from the street and onto the track. I'm not talking about having to drive fast on the street - that's definitely not the point. But if every driver can make the switch, then why do so many drive on the track with one hand on the shifter, with low-aim vision, with inappropriate braking forces, with the wrong timing of shifts, with feet riding the pedals?

Because they learned those bad habits and have not yet unlearned them. Once muscle memory is taught, and a driver has actually learned the good habits they need to drive well on the track, they will not unlearn them just from driving on the street.

Chances are, a person not willing/able to put in the necessary work to unlearn bad habits and train new good habits will not have the dedication or mental skill required to be a good driver anyway.

For myself, I totally cruise down the street with one elbow out the window and my other hand resting on the center console most of the time. On the track, I do have a habit of reaching for the gear shift a bit prematurely, but I'm not resting my hand on it mid corner Just reaching for it as I'm going down the strait 1-2 seconds before I actually need to shift.

Ross_Bentley wrote: So, if a major league baseball player played catch every single day holding the ball wrong, twisting his body in the wrong way, with the wrong foot in front of the other, with his glove facing the wrong direction... would that impact the way he played on the field? Even just a little bit?

Probably. But if he practiced throwing without going into the full wind up and stance and with his fingers in a not-special configuration (e.g. throwing like all the other players on the field), that's not going to hurt his ability to throw a slider.

I had poor hand placement and steering until I went to the track. I learned the Detroit lean from my Dad! Anyway, I forced myself to drive on the street at 9 and 3. I however had to modify my hand movements as I began training to be a DE instructor. I now shuffle steer on the street to avoid crossing my arms over the airbag. I was convinced this was a good thing when watching in car video of one of the C5r drivers doing a school and he was shuffle steering. I do think though that there are habits for both venues, that some are the same, some overlap, and some are for one and not the other.

I tell my students to move their hands as little as possible. Use the arms to turn the wheel. I tell them that every time they move a finger it's one more input the brain has to interpret. Keep the hands where they are and let the brain sort out the visual cues without interference from additional sensory "noise."

Personally, I can practice hand placement and smoothness on the street, sometimes slight apexing (within my own lane) if traffic is light. Braking, no..it seems to scare people. Small aside, one of the reasons I hate SUVs is that I'm so much lower than them that I can't look far enough down the road. With passenger cars, I can often look straight through their window glass to see far enough, but all I can see through an SUV is the headliner.

Yeah, I know.."allow more room". Not possible in Atlanta Metro. It's said that nature abhors a vaccum? Atlanta traffic ties it to a post and shoots it. You leave three or four carlengths here, and three or four cars move into that space. Imagine the 405 in Los Angeles. Now imagine it at 75mph. I felt safer on the race track.

I practice on the street if it's appropriate (but I'm generally pretty sedate on the street).
Apexing (in lane), heel/toe and always scanning out far and in the mirrors (I also set the mirrors with less overlap).
Usually this is the Miata. Less often with either of the MGs.

But today, I was on a quiet and empty back road. So I got our new Accord up on three wheels.

True. Unlearning bad habits of a lifetime is tricky. Some are easier than others. Things like looking ahead I found out reading an article about top DH racers. So I started paying attention to doing while riding my bikes and driving my cars. By the time I started autocrossing, looking ahead to see the course wasn't terribly difficult.

Other DH techniques were harder to learn. I took a training course one year and the instructor asked me change my brake lever position on my bars and learn to use only my index finger for braking. After some 25 years of 2-finger braking, I was hesitant, but I was paying him for his advice so I tried it. Within a month I couldn't imagine braking with two fingers ever again.

Like GPS, I drive completely different on the street than I do on the track or at an AX. That doesn't mean I don't use some of the same tactics such as looking way ahead, not just at the rear of the car in front of me although I am always watching for brake lights. I also watch traffic patterns when on the street and if I see someone doing stupid stuff I will slow down/change lanes/reroute/pass whatever is the safest way to get the hell away from them, that's a combination of street and race driving experience.

I know a road racer who refuses to AX, he says it screws up his reaction times, i.e. he reacts too quickly/jerkily when road racing after an AX. Hmmm. I'm not sure in my case that applies. Maybe that's because of my off road experience where it was essential to quickly adapt or flail around like a squid.

I do know when I started road racing I had to quickly unlearn some AX axioms such as trading speed for distance, i.e. given a choice between higher speed and shorter distance on an AX course the shorter distance will save time. Not so in road racing, or at least not most of the time.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

I agree with your stuff about AX vs. road racing. I still claim that the reason I stink at AX is because I went road racing first, and having to make control inputs so quickly seems strange to me. The buddy of mine who was coaching me (won't share the name, since I haven't asked him first, but runs top 5 constantly in Atl. Reg. SCCA) at the AX said he really wasn't sure if he enjoyed his first HPDE. It wasn't until he got a crapcan ride that he understood the difference.

I should mention: he ran his first HPDE in his AX car with his AX setup! IMO, that had as much to do with his discomfort as different "styles" of driving might have had.

I still remember getting hammered by an instructor for keeping my hand on the shifter. One of those clarity moments. Happy to say its not an issue for me any longer on course or on the street.

Ross_Bentley wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: You may be able to switch back and forth, but many drivers carry over some of the most basic habits from the street and onto the track. I'm not talking about having to drive fast on the street - that's definitely not the point. But if every driver can make the switch, then why do so many drive on the track with one hand on the shifter, with low-aim vision, with inappropriate braking forces, with the wrong timing of shifts, with feet riding the pedals? So, if a major league baseball player played catch every single day holding the ball wrong, twisting his body in the wrong way, with the wrong foot in front of the other, with his glove facing the wrong direction... would that impact the way he played on the field? Even just a little bit? Fun discussion!

I think, (and please do only take this as my non-scientific opine) once you have established that you have the physical skills and focus to persue this - the rest is mostly seat time. Seat time with good habits, but seat time in spades.

The people I see bringing bad street habits to the track are newbies or long time occasional flyers, 3-5 day a year guys. They take a whole session the first day to re-establish a base when they get there. Sometimes they make big mistakes when they are remembering brake points from the fall they can't hit yet in spring. They are the same guys who slow down when you divert their attention by talking to them. (one of my favorite tricks for getting speed racer to reel it in w/o having to be a dick, btw).

Good amateur and pros alike never do that stuff - you go out in race practice or an instructor group the first session in AM after a long winter and find that everyone is on it. Right away. Pushing. They flip the switch and go. So, that leads me to believe that at some point in your development your mind stores the race track program in a different file.

Back to the baseball analogy - maybe that was a bad analogy for me to have used since catch is integral to baseball and performed the same way in the yard as the game. Driving and DRIVING are completely different in many respects. I am also not dismissing your theory as completely off the wall either though - I just think that good instruction and seat time make whatever habits you use on the street irrelevant once you have reached a certain proficiency - but it is entirely possible they prevent some people from ever getting that far. (we call that OSB).

Some habits are hard to break. The last time we went go carting I stopped at every other turn to pick up passengers

I practice hand position, eyes, smoothness, controlling speed with short, firm, smooth brake application, and heel-toe downshifts on the street.

I echo about everything Mr. Snorklewacker has said.

The fastest I've ever gone was a Saturday morning qualifying session where I was gridded P1 and the group immediately before ours had oiled the track, badly. My initial plan to let everyone by and work up to a good lap was scrubbed in favor of capitalizing on staying in front - hence not in clouds of Oil-Dri dust - and that the rest of the group would be spooked about the grip. So I went out fast, spun on oil once a few laps in and never saw another car 'til the cool down lap when I caught the back of the pack.

No time to do anything but go. Now.

This is a big part of what I dig about racing - it's on/off.

That said - much of the mechanics can be reinforced on the street - just not any of the fuzzy stuff that only happens at grip limits.

I don't really have any bad habits on the street. I tend to rest my hands at 6 o' clock in heavy gridlock traffic and I don't put as much attention into it, not sure if those count.

One of my good street habits, which makes for a bad racetrack habit, is my tendency to brake early and gently. I blame that on growing up in Saskatchewan, on icy, dirt or gravel roads. Never really knowing exactly what the road conditions are going to be 50 feet down the road makes for timidity.

I compensate on the track as much as I can- I drive off the apex harder than most people. Sometimes I have to because somebody got under me on braking, but I just can't do it...