ThunderCougarFalconGoat wrote: ..I've never said the A-10 wasn't necessary. But that program was a long time ago, over 40 years. It's been a great soldier, but even great soldiers should be allowed to retire on top.
Yeah, come on now! It's not like the army is still using the same gun it did 50 years ago! Or 75 years ago!!! That would be silly!
Old is old, time for something new!!
I kind of think that one of the things that the public loves so much about the A-10 is that it's the "Rocky" of planes. Like the movie pugilist, the Warthog can take an absolute beating, but bloody and battered, still dish out some wicked punishment. They both came out of the '70s when America didn't feel particularly great about itself.
Also, just what combat environment is being envisioned where we don't have overwhelming air superiority in the first week? A couple squadrons of F-15s, much less the shiny new F-22s are more than capable of clearing the skies of everything else anyone else can field. And as was pointed out during my war (the storm) once you own the sky you can drop bombs out of a dump truck (B-52) with impunity.
In reply to aircooled:
Its not like the Army hasn't tried...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Combat_Rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Purpose_Individual_Weapon
https://www.army.mil/article/92130/M2A1_Machine_Gun_features_greater_safety__heightened_lethality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM806
KyAllroad wrote: Also, just what combat environment is being envisioned where we don't have overwhelming air superiority in the first week? A couple squadrons of F-15s, much less the shiny new F-22s are more than capable of clearing the skies of everything else anyone else can field. And as was pointed out during my war (the storm) once you own the sky you can drop bombs out of a dump truck (B-52) with impunity.
Its always the worst case scenario. You don't plan for anything else. You hope it doesn't come to that, but we still have a lot of nuclear weapons being upgraded right now because we always plan for the worst.
Russia and China are currently attempting to produce their own 5th generation fighters, and they are a lot more lenient about what kind of crazy they will export advanced military hardware too than we are. Not to mention the increased abilities of SAMs and AAA, especially man-portable versions, which continue to be a nuisance to allied aircraft.
I know everyone seems to think that the A10 can get all shot up and continue fighting, but are there any examples of that in real life where they don't immediately just go home?
red_stapler wrote: I know everyone seems to think that the A10 can get all shot up and continue fighting, but are there any examples of that in real life where they don't immediately just go home?
AIUI, the goal isn't to keep fighting after getting shot up. The goal is to keep the pilot alive and uncaptured, which also means he can fly plane home where it can be fixed and flown again.
Smithsonian network ran an A-10 program last week. They featured a story on the female A-10 pilot that took AA fire and flew back with huge holes in the tail.
red_stapler wrote: I know everyone seems to think that the A10 can get all shot up and continue fighting, but are there any examples of that in real life where they don't immediately just go home?
Don't know if it's happened IRL, but there are simulators where you can try it yourself. Even in sims that don't simulate damage, the plane is so stable and easy to fly you'll have no doubt that you could fly it with some wingtips and rudders blown off.
I can only voice the second hand thoughts of the two Marines in my family and say that,
When calling upon air support there is more to be gained knowing that there is another soldier on your side in the air than what thing they are flying. A drone makes them feel even more alone and even adds to the stress. They get more satisfaction from the helicopter support but often times didn't see much as they were busy being engaged with the enemy. So they heard helicopters when things went well more often.
A-10: small fraction of all the CAS in the AOR, all the credit. Forget the gun, the really impressive thing about the A-10 is it's PR team!
Highest rates of frats in GWOT, though...
And nobody mentions the Marines in their F/A-18s doing arguably higher quality CAS in their fast movers...
Textbook emotionally driven argument.
WildScotsRacing wrote: In reply to ThunderCougarFalconGoat: Another A-10 fun fact: Also in Desert Storm, Hog driver shot down a Mirage F1 with a gun kill
Yeah, I've also not heard this.
I have heard, though, rumors of an A-10 gun kill on an F-22 (simulated, of course) during a Red Flag exercise. If true, that would be a hard one for the Raptor pilot to live down.
GameboyRMH wrote:red_stapler wrote: I know everyone seems to think that the A10 can get all shot up and continue fighting, but are there any examples of that in real life where they don't immediately just go home?Don't know if it's happened IRL, but there are simulators where you can try it yourself. Even in sims that don't simulate damage, the plane is so stable and easy to fly you'll have no doubt that you could fly it with some wingtips and rudders blown off.
A few were shot down in the first gulf war, SAM can be a tricky bastard.
In reply to Osterkraut:
Marines typically used the AV8B for CAS.
The A-10 is just the pinnacle of the idea that was the A-1 Skyraider, eventually they will be gone, but it will be interesting to see if it also requires 3 different airframes to pick up the slack.
Also, the hogs have picked up a new role fairly recently thanks to their loiter time, FAC. Remember those pesky Cessnas & O-2's that did that role in Vietnam? The hog just has a bit more than a few smoke rockets. 
In reply to foxtrapper:
I had no idea you used to work on the A-10s. Cool ;)
You'll need to log in to post.
