Have you run the numbers on renting vs buying for something you really only need the size of a few times per year?
Have you run the numbers on renting vs buying for something you really only need the size of a few times per year?
In reply to bluej (Forum Supporter) :
Gotcha. I'd look at a land cruiser a Lexus gx or a 4Runner. All can have Third rows and tow. While being less biggerer than a full size sequoia/Tahoe.
If you want wacky flyer. A properly spaced e series wagon can tow 4600lbs. Yes a big merc wagon would technically work.
One thing people don't realize until they get in one is that the Sequioa has an amazing turning radius that makes it drive much smaller than it actually is. We have a gx460 as well and the sequoia seems smaller to drive even though it is much larger. The gx sits in the garage most of the time.
Fueled by Caffeine said:In reply to bluej (Forum Supporter) :
Gotcha. I'd look at a land cruiser a Lexus gx or a 4Runner. All can have Third rows and tow. While being less biggerer than a full size sequoia/Tahoe.
Gx460 3rd row basically touches the rear gate and they almost sit on the floor.
I have been towing with an ecoboost flex for the last 3 years.
No complaints while towing. Active cruise is great. Pulling the paddle to downshift down hills is a nice luxury. Sport mode keeps it out of 6th gear and automatically downshifts for engine braking. There is enough power that short onramps are not issues. It probably needs an airbag on the rear suspension for the 4,000lb car and trailer combo I tow. I generally tow with 93 octane gas and average 16mpg. The gas tank is quite small at around 18 gallons. I keep my speed down to 65 mph while towing but I imagine you could go faster.
For daily drive purposes, the seats are comfortable but have zero bolstering. We ended up buying a cooler that sits between the 2nd row seats to use as a bolster on long trips. Head room is great. Second row legroom is the best of any car or truck I have tried. There is enough room for me to sit in front of a rear facing child seat in the 2nd row. 3rd row room is ok for people up to 5'6". The third row folds flat but you have to be careful because the seat backs have a fairly low weight limit. The folding seats are not as good as Chrysler or some of the other minivans. Infotainment + android auto works fine. The only annoying bit is not being able to see the HVAC temperature while using android auto.
The big concern is durability over time. If the water pump goes, it pumps all of the coolant into the cylinders. The PTU is known for failures that require replacement. The transverse engine placement leads to different problems than the 3.5 ecoboost in the F150.
We test drove the Durango before we got the Flex. The high trim level Flex interior impressed us and pushed us towards it. These days, cheaper gas, v8 noises, and RWD might push us towards the Durango
Our '16 Pilot is rated to tow 5K (AWD, with the add-on factory transmission cooler). Good room in the 2nd and 3rd row, good access to the 3rd row as well (important for Grandparents).
I like how the '16 and up drives, and would probably lean more towards the 6spd automatic transmission over the models with the 9 or 10spd.
Roof rails/racks are available, but the OEM options aren't cheap (think $800 for the factory rails/crossbars). I like the seats, but seats are a very personal preference, so you would need to check it out for yourself.
Minivans are typically good to tow about $3.5k, I don't know of a factory one rated to tow 4.5k. If you're planning to have more kids, the power sliding doors are great, and there's no vehicle that uses space more efficiently. I like the space of our '17 Odyssey, but like the way our Pilot drives more. Our Odyssey does have 200k on it and the Pilot's at 88k, so that may be a contributing factor.
If you're up for something older what about a V8 powered Trailblazer or Saab 9-7x. I think they make a long wheelbase model with 3 rows of seats. Take the rest of your budget and build the 4l60, then add boost until it meets your fun requirement. Or go for an SS model.
Tahoe is a better platform but seems too big for your program.
In the same line as the Armada, what about the variety of alphabet soup Infiniti SUVs? There has to be something in that group with a fun engine and 3 rows.
Nissan Pathfinder with the V8 also has a great tow rating, third row, and a smaller footprint than a full-size SUV.
If you need room behind the 3rd row, its really only full size van/Sprinter/Whatever they are called, Suburban/Escalade EXT/Yukon XL, or if you are feeling fancy, an Excursion.
If you don't need room behind the 3rd row, any V8 SUV would be fine.
-Sequoia
-Land Cruiser/LX570
-GX/4 Runner (but they are tiny and underpowered)
-Tahoe/Escalade/Yukon
-V8 Failblazer or its derivatives
-Expedition
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
The gx did get the 4.6 v8. Decent motor.
Ford Expedition with Ecoboost. Not quite Suburban big but good enough that all three rows are real seats and will tow whatever you have. IRS handles pretty nicely, good brakes. Not a sports car but very much not a lumbering behemoth either.
In reply to KyAllroad :
You are correct. I rented one on a business trip recently and it has way more grunt go and way better handling than my ancient suburban.
I have a older (07) 2wd expedition with the 5.8, though mine isnt optioned with the 3rd row. I tow a 3000lb enclosed trailer with a formula car in it. I havent really logged what my MPG has been towing on longer runs, but the car tells me that I get 16.5-17mpg doing mostly local daily driving type stuff. The IRS makes it handle a bit nicer than other trucks, but you are still up high and a bit lumbering. It works well as an appliance vehicle and mine has 175k on it. I am looking at possibly replacing it soon, not really because anything is failing, but mostly because I want something a bit smaller and more nimble (I dont need a 3rd row, so I am looking at Ford Maverick or Hyundai Santa Cruz).
If you shop Expeditions, check the rockers between the door bottoms and the running boards closely, they rust very readily there.
Logical choice is a Sequoia, right price, right options. Masochistic choice is Audi Q7 TDi, will tow 7700 pounds without a large dent in fuel economy and range.
My wife and I ponder similar things. I daily drive a truck that is the primary tow vehicle, and she currently drives a 4Runner. Both are fine now with our single kid and dog, but the family will likely continue to grow and friends, cousins, etc will require a 3rd row from time to time. The real question for us is how often will that third row get used, and how much space behind that seat would we need.
Ford Flex would probably top my list for the non-truckish choice. Does the current or last generation Explorer come with a 3rd row?
Dodge Durango I don't think has been proposed yet. It's a longer wheelbase Grand Cherokee, which people seem to love for a daily that can also tow.
They are not plentiful but the e70 X5 had a 3rd row option. I have a two row 2012 X5 diesel and absolutely love the car. Tows a LOT, can be had with rear air suspension, is perfectly quiet at 90 on the highway, seats are amazing and was a ton of fun when we went to the NC mountains this past summer - so much so that I kept making my wife car sick!
In reply to ojannen :
thanks so much for sharing! your usage is very similar to how I'll be using my new whichever vehicle.
one of my biggest concerns is the general reliability. how do you handle the water pump danger? what's the service interval on it? Would I have to disassemble the entire transmission to swap a failing PTU (basically a transfercase, right?).
The reliability and desire to not HAVE to do a bunch of work to the vehicle means that some of the options like the Q7 seem like not the best fit. I don't want to be chasing aging german electronics, I've had enough of that fun with the e46 which is supposed to be the last gen before all that got really complicated.
So just to reiterate since some of the suggestions have been 2-row vehicles, a 3rd row is a must. A roof cargo pods is also a likely addition to extend cargo space. We've done two NC trips with borrowed pods on the MKC and it's worked out well enough we know we want one.
I think one of the biggest things I'm struggling with for any of the options is trying to weigh how many miles are an acceptable amount given my budget and the reliability concerns. That and just not wanting to drop 20k on something that feels worn out.
A properly equipped 2013+ Hyundai Santa Fe (Not the Santa Fe Sport) fits the bill. The full sized Santa Fe has a V6, 3 rows, standard AWD, and tows up to 5k. An abridged powertrain warranty transfers to the second owner too. My wife's has been decent, but we did have a window motor replaced around 60k, as well as an injector and rear driveline coupler replaced under said abridged powertrain warranty. Averages about 24mpg during regular commuting when she drives and closer to 26 when I drive.
A current gen Durango fits too. Tows up to 6200 and can make rowdy V8 noises.
Regarding handling, I'm assuming that I'm going to want to do a shock and spring (maybe sways?) upgrade, along with whatever brake improvements are feasible. Examples: what Josh H. has done with his Sequoias, or seeing if you can put the same gen Explorer sport bits under a Flex (anyone know anything about that?). None of that is a priority, just doing what I can to make whatever I end up with better. If it's more tarmac centric like a Flex, I'll go that direction. If it's more off-roady/truck based, well It'd be cool if it were at least capable of tagging along with what my rally buddies also do for some off-roading fun up in PA.
To get a bit more make/model specific (with the 4.5k towing in mind..):
Durangos: seem to fall in the sweet spot, though not much shorter than some of the other options that seem a little large. might help that the DC po-po have them so I see them around a lot. What's the reliability really like? I feel a bit better with a 100-150k range v8 over a TT v6, but then chrysler product makes me nervous. My parents had both a first and then second gen, so I'm at least somewhat familiar.
Explorers: the 5th gen ('11-'19) are 3-row and also an option. I can't see myself getting the NA v6 in this or a Flex when the TT v6 is an option. Same as the flex, I don't think over 100k is an option. The Explorers seem easier to find than the Flex, especially with the tow package. I'm worried I'd kick myself for not holding out for a Flex with better interior space (I think?).
Nissan products: Anything of theirs (newer pathfinder) with a CVT is out. V8/truck based options like the Armada are ok. Armada's do seem to be in the big enough, but not too big category if pushing the envelope a bit. I don't know them or Nissan products in general all that well, except to avoid the cvt's. I really don't know how this translates to whichever Infiniti versions.
Toyota: I don't want the first gen Sequoia, but the second gen does fall in the size range I'd be ok with. I know it's stupid, but I also sort of don't want one just because I don't want to copy Josh (like I usually end up doing anyway 
). Heard re: not pushing the highlander hybrid (and it's trans). I thought it was also rated at 5k for some reason (my bad). Does the v6 suck that much to drive? Seems like I could fix that with the suspension work. This would probably be the easiest to find in budget.
(honda, GM, volvo, and Hyundai next post)
The third row in a highlander (a 2012 anyway) is a "small kids only" place to sit. Your feet are just a few inches below the seat bottom and pretty close to the second row if theirs are slid all the way back. If you try to use that seat for adults it better be a real short trip. And there is about 36"x12 of space behind the third row seats. But it's an outstanding vehicle otherwise. No idea what it'll tow - mine only has a receiver used for a bicycle carrier.
Honda products: don't need the lux of Acura, so would stick with looking for Pilots. I had read here somewhere that driving them was pretty blah. I've never owned a Honda product, so not previous experience to draw on. Wasn't there trans issues with the V6's? The thought of towing with one makes me nervous.
Volvo: first gen xc90 in v8 flavor sounds nice. I know to avoid the first year and half of the v8 especially because of the water intrusion issue if the engine is washed... like just about every used car that goes up for sale 
. I know very little about the second gens, but long term something that size, and towing, with a smaller turbo engine seems like a bad combo.
GM: So basically Tahoe based, right? They all seem to be falling apart inside. I don't think I can bring myself to pull that trigger.
Hyundai/Kia: LWB Sante Fe and '16 up Sorento in AWD w/ the DI 3.3 v6 and tow package hit the 5k rating. I had a Forte for a while I liked. This could definitely be an option, but I don't know enough about them. Nocones, was it you that towed with one of these? any input? Also, Bob, please weigh in on the K-cars as usual 
In reply to STM317 :
That sounds like at least two GRM families happy enough with their Sante Fe/Sorentos. thanks!
In reply to OHSCrifle :
Full 3rd row usage will be shorter trips around the city, so that's ok. thanks for the perspective!
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