Whiskey anyone?

To all of you who think the Makers Mark is quality stuff. You have fallen victim to one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. Years ago, Makers was completely run of the mill Kentucky bourbon. Absolutely nothing special about it. Quality-wise it was meh, just ordinary stuff.

In an attempt to gain market share MM tried dropping their price, again and again they lowered it but their share remained stubbornly flat. Then one of the wives had an idea: Raise their price and add a wax cap, market themselves as a "premium bourbon" and make people chase them. It worked, MM is a very mediocre bourbon with a gimmicky top. They have "special edition" releases and have convinced the drinking world that they are worth the money.

They are not. Don't be fooled.

A couple years ago my brother-in-law and I did a double blind taste test with a number of different scotches and whiskeys. My favorites, in order:

1. Jameson's Irish Whiskey
2. Jack Daniel's Bourbon
3. 2 Gingers Irish Whiskey

I have also been trying some rye whiskey lately, which I find enjoyable.

It's hard to drink scotch after drinking Irish and bourbon - the smoke flavor can be overwhelming.

KyAllroad wrote: To all of you who think the Makers Mark is quality stuff. You have fallen victim to one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. Years ago, Makers was completely run of the mill Kentucky bourbon. Absolutely nothing special about it. Quality-wise it was meh, just ordinary stuff. In an attempt to gain market share MM tried dropping their price, again and again they lowered it but their share remained stubbornly flat. Then one of the wives had an idea: Raise their price and add a wax cap, market themselves as a "premium bourbon" and make people chase them. It worked, MM is a very mediocre bourbon with a gimmicky top. They have "special edition" releases and have convinced the drinking world that they are worth the money. They are not. Don't be fooled.

I didn't buy MM, I was given it. And it's not bad. The question was more around, if I drink that, what would be the next step?

Why harsh on someone else's tastes?

Maker's isn't bad stuff, really. Until fairly recently, if I was far from home and wanted a bourbon, it was the one thing every bar carried. Bourbon is a little more en vogue now, though, so choices are better. But I keep it around the house for mint juleps, bourbon slush, or an occasional sour. It's not good enough or pricey enough that you're destroying the flavor by polluting it, but it's good enough to not bring any industrial cleaning chemical flavors to the party.

As far as where you go from there, Eagle Rare was suggested and that's a great move. Weller is excellent for the money. It's a little more spend your, but Blanton is great - look for the bottle that looks like the holy hand grenade. Another to look at would be just the regular Buffalo Trace.

Now this might not count, but Buffalo Trace takes their eponymous bourbon and shops it to The Great White North where they mix it with dairy, bottle it as Bourbon Cream, and then ship it back to us. Despite the crazy road trip, this stuff is just lovely. Pretty cheap, better than Bailey's, and at the distillery they'll show you to mix it 50/50 with a good root beer for an awesome root beer float. Also, my wife has been too inebriated to go to lunch on more than one occasion by putting it in her coffee in the morning.

wae wrote: My favorite varies depending on taste, but right now I'm in an Elmer T Lee phase (Bourbon from Buffalo Trace).

Where did you find that?! It's my wife's fav and it was a great buy when it was $30 a bottle but now it's unobtainium where I've looked in PA, WI, and IL. I find the trendiness of bourbon has softened my enthusiasm for drinking it as a hobby. I stick to a few favorites I can actually get on the shelf and if i ever stumble upon something special, then great.

turtl631 wrote:

wae wrote: My favorite varies depending on taste, but right now I'm in an Elmer T Lee phase (Bourbon from Buffalo Trace).

Where did you find that?! It's my wife's fav and it was a great buy when it was $30 a bottle but now it's unobtainium where I've looked in PA, WI, and IL. I find the trendiness of bourbon has softened my enthusiasm for drinking it as a hobby. I stick to a few favorites I can actually get on the shelf and if i ever stumble upon something special, then great.

I send my wife in to bat her eyelashes and ask nice if they have a bottle or two. So far it's 100%

Ugh, my wife has been batting her eyelashes all over with no luck. We actually have a good relationship with our local store but the owner said he's really been struggling to get anything interesting in the last few years.

Like a lot of other folks here, started with scotch, discovered bourbon, and most recently fell in love with rye.

Angel's Envy rye and W.L. Weller have been at the top of the rotation, though I do enjoy bulleit rye as well.

On the less expensive end of the spectrum, Platte Valley makes a damn good corn whisky.

In reply to KyAllroad:

I tried Buffalo Trace. I liked it.

High West has some great product in the more expensive range. Campfire is an interesting mash up of bourbon, rye, and malt whiskies. Rendezvous Rye is also delicious.

Four Roses Single Barrel is a standby of mine. Elijah Craig. Henry McKenna. Dickel 12 for a really tasty Tennessee whiskey. Bookers for a readily available if pricey big barrel strength option (better value!).

I find there's a lot of mediocrity in the middle price range with upstart brands selling crap in attempt to capitalize on the bourbon trend. I'd rather just get some Evan Williams black label etc and have a solid cheap product than some garbage with a neat label. Some of the micro distilled stuff I've had is atrocious. Aging for one year in a mini barrel doesn't do it.

smokindav wrote: It's hard to drink scotch after drinking Irish and bourbon - the smoke flavor can be overwhelming.

Interesting reasoning, I never thought about why I prefer Irish and bourbon over scotch.

turtl631 wrote: Ugh, my wife has been batting her eyelashes all over with no luck. We actually have a good relationship with our local store but the owner said he's really been struggling to get anything interesting in the last few years.

It may also help that we live within 75 miles or so of the distillery =)

In reply to alfadriver: You are correct sir I apologize and am properly chastened. My intent was not to harsh on anyone's tastes, simply to educate those less versed in the lore of bourbon (swear to FSM, I went to Bourbon County high school ). I see so often people fall for advertising gimmicks and reputation rather than the quality of the liquid in the bottle. But flavor is a subjective thing and to each their own, if you enjoy a thing, please continue to do so.

An aside: I haven't tried it yet as it is still in it's infancy but I want to buy some "Leadslingers" whisky. From those guys who did the Range 15 movie and Black Rifle coffe.

I do love me some whiskey and whisky.

Scotch:

The Balvenie 12 (super smooth)it's a Speyside

Lagavulin 16 (Peat moss punch in the face)

A like a lot of islays in general.

Whiskey:

Makers for Mixing

Jack Daniels Barrel Select for drinking straight

Whistle Pig rye for getting freaky teaky

KyAllroad wrote: To all of you who think the Makers Mark is quality stuff. You have fallen victim to one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. ... They are not. Don't be fooled.

For anyone who thinks Whistle Pig, Angel's Envy, Bullet, George Dickel, Templeton, High West are worth paying extra for you should know they are all the same stock, made by MGP of Indiana and the recipe is the same as Seagrams Seven. Various makers add flavor but it's the $19 half-gallon E36 M3 all the same.

The Delicious Secret Behind Your Favorite Whiskey

If your whiskey brand is younger than the age on the bottle... you should be suspicious of it's origins :)

Huckleberry wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: To all of you who think the Makers Mark is quality stuff. You have fallen victim to one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. ... They are not. Don't be fooled.

For anyone who thinks Whistle Pig, Angel's Envy, Bullet, George Dickel, Templeton, High West are worth paying extra for you should know they are all the same stock, made by MGP of Indiana and the recipe is the same as Seagrams Seven. Various makers add flavor but it's the $19 half-gallon E36 M3 all the same. The Delicious Secret Behind Your Favorite Whiskey If your whiskey brand is younger than the age on the bottle... you should be suspicious of it's origins :)

I admit, I fell for it.

For years, when I wanted Rye, I had to find a well-stocked old liquor store. If I was lucky, I'd find a dusty bottle of Jim Beam Rye or perhaps Old Overholt Rye. Both are fine Ryes, but I wanted more.

About 10 years ago, Rye had a resurgence. I saw new brands. I fell for a bottle of Redemption Rye. When the Rye scandal broke, I was ashamed and angry for falling for it.

I still have about 1/3 of that bottle of Redemption left. I can't bring myself to drink it.

Huckleberry wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: To all of you who think the Makers Mark is quality stuff. You have fallen victim to one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. ... They are not. Don't be fooled.

For anyone who thinks Whistle Pig, Angel's Envy, Bullet, George Dickel, Templeton, High West are worth paying extra for you should know they are all the same stock, made by MGP of Indiana and the recipe is the same as Seagrams Seven. Various makers add flavor but it's the $19 half-gallon E36 M3 all the same. The Delicious Secret Behind Your Favorite Whiskey If your whiskey brand is younger than the age on the bottle... you should be suspicious of it's origins :)

That still doesn't mean it tastes bad. If you like it, you like it.

For one of our locals- Two James, they told us that their starting Whiskey is from MGP while they are putting together their planned system. Which was fine- the whiskey they sold tasted good, and it was kind of what they wanted to make. Now, they just finished their own rye, which is really good.

As for the brand "issue"- here in Michigan, new laws have meant we have a bunch of new micro-distilleries. They are not getting anything from MGP.... Go to the distillery, see the operation, see the barrels full and aging. You will know where it comes from.

Huckleberry wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: To all of you who think the Makers Mark is quality stuff. You have fallen victim to one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. ... They are not. Don't be fooled.

For anyone who thinks Whistle Pig, Angel's Envy, Bullet, George Dickel, Templeton, High West are worth paying extra for you should know they are all the same stock, made by MGP of Indiana and the recipe is the same as Seagrams Seven. Various makers add flavor but it's the $19 half-gallon E36 M3 all the same. The Delicious Secret Behind Your Favorite Whiskey If your whiskey brand is younger than the age on the bottle... you should be suspicious of it's origins :)

Well no. That article specifically lays out what happens and it's not what you're describing. There are different mash bills, blending and post-aging that all lend to differences.

People shouldn't think that these "blenders" or "bottlers" are distilling their own work, but that doesn't mean they aren't adding to equation either.

DaveEstey wrote: People shouldn't think that these "blenders" or "bottlers" are distilling their own work, but that doesn't mean they aren't adding to equation either.

That is exactly what they were doing though. Making up origin stories, marketing hand-crafted small batch bourbon and re-selling mass produced whiskey stock. Templeton's little craft distilling story cost them a lot of money. That settlement had many a "craft distiller" changing their label in a big rush to avoid the same fate. Some of them made their own whiskey to be legit but it won't be ready for another decade. In the meantime... $38 Seagrams Seven to the rescue!

Adding a little smoke flavor or a few drops of different stock from a different mass producer in a cute custom bottle and quadrupling the price does not make you a craft distiller. It makes you a bartender. It doesn't make what you sell garbage either but it makes paying top dollar for it quite a bit less compelling. And maybe garners a little resentment from the people who bought your stuff when they could have just bought a handle of seagrams seven for $17.50 and had 99% of the same experience. Only... nobody can sip seagrams in front of their snooty whiskey snob friends smoking a $14 fraudulent cuban and comment knowingly on the texture and aroma of the batch.

In reply to Huckleberry:

A lot of that depends on where the other blends come from. Just saw a thing about cognac, and they went through one of the major distilleries. That place had some blend sources that were over 100 year old.

So IF they are blending something from a LONG time ago, and it's rare, but makes a very special taste- then it is worth it. Again, the guy in our local micro-distillery managed to visit one of the major producers- and got a taste of something that was rare and old- which is barely used to add some flavor. But it was VERY good, he said.

If the goal of whiskey is to get drunk, I'd spend no more than $10 on a bottle.

But I enjoy the taste.

alfadriver wrote: If the goal of whiskey is to get drunk, I'd spend no more than $10 on a bottle. But I enjoy the taste.

Very few people though, will admit that the stuff in the $10 bottle can taste pretty ok. And you know what? It does. It tastes the same at $13, $19, $40 and $75. That is the whole point here. Most of these guys aren't adding taste they are just changing it - they are differentiating themselves slightly from the base so they can upcharge what they pay very little money for. It's bullE36 M3.

It's the same thing as "All Natural Grape Juice*"

*less than 2% fruit juice

Because water and sugar are all natural... and CHEAP.

Opened another bottle of this yesterday. Their production manager is a member of our car club.

Good stuff, and they really run their own distilling operation.

What's also interesting is what's done with the bourbon barrels after they've aged the whisky. They're used to make a really tasty dark rum, and they also go out to a lot of the local microbreweries for "cask aged" products.

That pictures kind of oversized, though-- sorry.

In reply to Huckleberry:

Then I'm not sure why people are harshing on Makers Mark. I don't considering it expensive, and it's not bad.

If all you taste is the $$ that it costs, that's great. But I don't think that JD (which is just bourbon, filtered with charcoal) tastes anything like Eagle Rare, or Blanton's reserve.

It's a ridiculous landscape. Some do a great job blending though, high west is pretty transparent about this and their stuff is interesting and tasty.

I've been enjoying Bourbon but all of it did taste very similar for the most part. That makes a lot more sense after reading this thread.

I did just buy some Four Roses single-barrel, and that stuff is markedly better than the Bulleit, Elijah Craig, Maker's Mark, and Buffalo Trace bourbon I had tried previously.