2022 - Just how many mid-engined Challenge cars can we field?

preach (fs) said:

I don't know if this should go in this thread, the rant thread, or the minor confession thread but:

After reading all the updates a la Robbie, Jackets, Gumby, nocones et al and looking forward to seeing 2021s challenge videos and pics...

My '74 914 is tempting me hard for 2022 as it is nearly complete and I am only into it for $700 so far.

I also know where I can get a 230 slk kompressor for $80 for the 914s 1.8.

It'd be tough for me to get it to FL though.

I don't know if I hate you all or love you.

To reiterate:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I concur

You guys are still tentative in my opinion but I will tell you a story, this is without commitment as I have a project that I want to throw money at and a car that hit 95k this year and has a badge tax for repairs.

More excuses to follow...

It all starts out the year I was born, 1970. I am going by memory here (not from 1970), but IIRC the #40 Porsche 914/6 came in first in it's class and fourth-ish overall at the 24hr of LeMans (WEC is my favorite type of racing). So, this little 2l flat 6 stepped up it's first year and outdid Ford, sorta. I have a 1972 914 hood that I will be making a tribute to this car to hang in my shop. I just need to figure out the stickers and do it.

In 1978 I tore apart my first 350 chevy and have been a car guy since. When I learned to drive it was in a beetle, but I longed for speed. Thusly, if you want to go fast in an AC car you go porsche. When I was 16ish all my buddies has the countach on their walls, I had a 959. Bitches.

So I learned about endurance racing and the success of the #40 and fell in love. Too many years later, not even looking, this 1974 fell into my lap. The guy was a neighbor of a coworker and was losing his storage due to a move. My coworker said that he knew a guy that loved these little cars and wants to see it. That was me.

I went to see it, and was told he wanted $2500 for it. I told him it was not what I was looking for as I, even then had too many projects to deal with, so, no. That was a Monday. It was worth every penny and then some for $2500, I just did not have the room, the ability to get it home, nor the time for it.

On Wednesday of that week he called me and said he'd sell it to me for what he had into it IF I could pick it up that Saturday. $700. I'll be there Saturday.

A phone call to a X19 friend that had a small trailer for the fiat and, barely fitting on the trailer, it came home. Wanted, but not. It fell in my freaking lap.

Thusly:

Now, I am 6'2" and fit fine, without a helmet, in the thing and I am in heaven owning one. Finally.

It had been sitting in my yard untouched for 6 years before this happened...I not only get to ride in one through canyons in CA, but the kid that owned it lets me drive his 2.0 back 1 hour to San Diego. I dare anyone to wipe this smile off my face:

And still it sits, wire brushed and not running in the Toilet (my shop), waiting for me to retire and put it on a rotisserie.

The Merc SC has been the plan from the beginning and shal be done eventually. My 35+ year factory porsche mechanic said "oh...the torque!!!" when I told him about the supercharger plan. He has a 1974 2.0.

My truck can only tow 3000# I think and I do not own a trailer. I need at least 5000# tow and an aluminum traile to do what I need to do to the Opel, so a trck is in the works. But, damn fellas, I don't need to win at the challenge I just need to get there with something. It is bitchin'.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Needs floors. I forgot that bit.

I lost the pics, due to apples cloud scam/back up, but the wiring is E36 M3 and the floorboards are something. 

If the rules let me run the top as a hard top, cool, the 914s hoop was crash approved for then. But there are rules.

Ultimately I want to either restore the thing or buy one that someone else did the work to and just berkeley this one up wheel to wheel.

Oh and, still not reading the rules (dgaf), I got a free '72 so I have ton of the softer goods for concours.

Learn me supercharger blow through carbs....

914world post with saved pics.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=195272&hl=pariah&st=0

In reply to preach (fs) :

How much does your 914 weigh dry?

I'll loan you a front bumper to mount it to. No excuses.

Sub-2100. I have another front bumper I think. maybe.

2k miles flat towing on a transaxle? I don't know.

preach (fs) said:

Sub-2100. I have another front bumper I think. maybe.

2k miles flat towing on a transaxle? I don't know.

Well, then I can throw a spare side shifter or tail shifter as needed on my trailer to swap in after you burn yours up. What is it, about 30 minutes to change a transmission in those?  Yes, a proper trailer and tow vehicle would be optimal, but we can do what it takes.   I'd love to see your 914 at the Challenge.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:

preach (fs) said:

Sub-2100. I have another front bumper I think. maybe.

2k miles flat towing on a transaxle? I don't know.

Well, then I can throw a spare side shifter or tail shifter as needed on my trailer to swap in after you burn yours up. What is it, about 30 minutes to change a transmission in those?  Yes, a proper trailer and tow vehicle would be optimal, but we can do what it takes.   I'd love to see your 914 at the Challenge.

 

Can you just pull the axles? If you could leave the inners in and tie them up somehow you wouldn't even have to drain the fluid. haha. 

Tow dolly wouldn't work?

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I don't know.

I am 99% sure on the bumper and I already own a tow bar. I cannot remember if you need the axle stubs in for the rear wheels to spin.

Can you enter the same car with two drivers? I supply the car and someone from New England supplies the tow rig/trailer...

In reply to preach (fs) :

Not a clue, kind of doubt it, but I'm gonna bet that you can have two drivers 

I think I counted 7 mid-engined cars this year out of 42

In reply to maschinenbau :

How did they place?

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Sprinkled throughout, including 4 in top 10 and 1 in bottom 3 (Wreck Racing won Spectacular Failure, of course). 

In reply to maschinenbau :

Not "of course". That story still hasn't reached me. 

In reply to maschinenbau :

The reason I ask is because there is a certain logic to mid-engine cars that makes sense, especially to those of us who love cornering. The car is balanced, the weight is distributed better, there should be more grip at every corner. 
 

It makes sense. 
 

But I'm not sure it makes total sense in racing. I think the reality of transverse drivelines, stub axles, half shafts, and CV joints is that they will always have more trouble delivering the power. Heck, even Chevy with all their engineering might couldn't get it close to working until the C8. 
 

Im thinking that mid-engine cars will always have a theoretical advantage, but it may not always apply well in racing. Especially drag racing.
 

And the $2000 Challenge may never see a mid engine car win top honors.

But YOU are the man that I want to prove me wrong!  (And do it with my OWN car!!) 

In reply to preach (fs) :

Honestly I would probably replace the floors, try to find a set a Fuchs cheap from someone who doesn't know what they go for these days then horsetrade the 914 for something in the 4-6000 range. That can possibly get an MR-S or SW20 starting point. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to maschinenbau :

........

And the $2000 Challenge may never see a mid engine car win top honors.

......

False.  This years winner was mid-engined.

Do we care if the car was mid engine in it's production delivered state, or only if it is mid engine as raced at the challenge?

I'm not sure I lean either way, but curious as to the groups thoughts?

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

I'm definitely gonna try! And I agree, Brad was mid-engined. Entire engine was behind front axle. But more importantly it was "right-engined" lol

Some mids were set up better in some disciplines than others. Obviously Brad was a great autocrosser and launched decently, but Gumby said it was sketchy on the fast end of the strip due to wheelbase and alignment. LMP360 launched great in autcross but would spin tire for 1/8 mile without hooking, and would lose grip for each shift. The 3400 V6 Fiero, however, launched VERY hard at the strip and laid down 14.0, which I thought very respectable given the lack of power for the top end. It had noticeable squat at launch, probably helping weight transfer.

So I think there is a benefit to mid-engine Challenge cars. Nocones was already talking about a swappable "drag set" of bell cranks for the LMP360 rear suspension, to soften it for weight transfer. 

maschinenbau said:

Some mids were set up better in some disciplines than others. Obviously Brad was a great autocrosser and launched decently, but Gumby said it was sketchy on the fast end of the strip due to wheelbase and alignment.

For clarity, the big end of the strip was fine. It was shutting down that caused the issues. Our theories center around the radial vs bias battle between tire construction characteristics, and wide fronts w/toe-out. I doubt it takes much more than proper setup to get dialed in and stable.