Rusnak_322 wrote: but they have to be careful that it doesn't turn into a reality show / WWE type event.
There was a point there a few years ago where I was convinced that NASCAR was as scripted as wrestling. Maybe they should do what the monster truck guys did a few years ago and just go all in. Imagine a mysterious masked driver talking smack about another driver. Maybe do a few cutaway shots of the masked driver sneaking around the pits letting air out of tires or other general mayhem.
I know sponsorship for the cars/teams had been on the decline, but now having gone from the "Sprint" Cup to the "Monster Energy" Series makes me wonder just how bad it will get. I sure hope the Fox's/TNT's didn't overpay for the right to air races in the next few years.
I've always been annoyed by how they let drivers from the top tier series race in the lower, feeder-series. Duh, of course Kyle Busch will win in the trucks or the Nationwide (?), where is the fun in that? Leave those series as separate and see some new blood fight it out on Fridays and Saturdays.
In reply to Huckleberry:
That looks like a really fun way to spend an afternoon!
I was a die hard NASCAR fan in the eighties. Less so in the nineties. Barely payed attention to it in the 00's and it's dead to me now. This is stupid.
I kind of want to run the numbers and see if it is possible for a driver who never actually wins a race to end up the season champion. How badly could you place in individual races and still end up the overall winner? I'm sure it is possible.
In reply to slefain:
It was, Matt Kenseth winning the championship with one win is what led them to start tinkering with things.
Huckleberry wrote: I mean... We couldn't get tv coverage for real road racing, wrc, ama, motogp, f1... really anything... in this country until cable had extra channels they couldn't give away.
The reason live NASCAR ended up on tv every week in the first place was because ESPN had time to fill since it didn't have the NFL or Baseball. They showed broadcast NASCAR which was very tv friendly because it's easier to set up equipment around a fairly small track. They also showed F1 and Rallys from Europe but they were generally harder to watch because at the time the Europeans seemed to have something against competent camera crews and commentators.
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: I was a die hard NASCAR fan in the eighties. Less so in the nineties. Barely payed attention to it in the 00's and it's dead to me now. This is stupid.
Exactly how I have gone. I think this is the first year that I did not watch a single race. "back in the day" I was hoping that this was going to be one of those things i could get my son interested in and it would be something we could do together. But that is not going to happen now as I am not really a fan. I don't hate it I just seem to find better things to do than watch the WWE / WWF of motor racing. Never mind actually go to a race.
I've been a 2-race season ticket holder at New Hampshire Motor speedway since 2006. I called in this morning to cancel my July passes. This is just ridiculous, and I partially blame the drivers too. They're the ones that self-police and bitch about the rough racing early in races. What do you expect?
Just give me a TRUE touring stock car series any day of the week. Nascar is no longer worth tuning in for.
What a lot of road-race followers don't realize is that NASCAR fans find F1, IMSA and PWC races to be horribly boring. Just as we compare NASCAR races to flushing a packet of Skittles, they don't see how we can stand to watch a single-file line (hello F1) with very little passing.
They grew up watching "stock" cars running on smaller tracks---places where you can see the cars the entire time. This is the biggest gripe I hear from NASCAR fans---- in road racing you only see the car for 1/20th of the track. Also, the average NASCAR fan isn't necessarily an automotive enthusiast. They cheer for their team, their driver, their car owner. Most of them don't really care about the car, or it's mechanicals.
The road racing fan is much different. I think most road racing fans are automotive enthusiasts. They generally care less about the driver, team or owner, and more about the mechanical complexity and technology used in the cars. They don't mind not seeing the car for most of the time on track, as they are more entranced by the set-up nuances, and strategy.
Different strokes for different folks.
But yeah..... these new rules are silly. Of course, I'm more of a road-race fan, so I don't think NASCAR cares about my opinion very much.
logdog wrote:captdownshift wrote: Honestly, with this new format, I'd rather watch AER or even Chumpcar races if televised.Chump teams are starting to use racecast. You cant watch our car because all we have is a cheapo dash cam but Im sure you can watch from the leaders car as they lap us.http://www.sportscarillustrated.com/News_2017/A/news17A_0073_ChumpCar_Live_Feed.html
Chumpcar probably isn't fast or crashy enough to be entertaining for most.
However, the mayhem and drama in the paddock as everyone scrambles to fix their broken crapcans... You could sell that 
If I want fast and crashy I'll just watch Ferrari Challenge races.
Joe Gearin wrote: This is the biggest gripe I hear from NASCAR fans---- in road racing you only see the car for 1/20th of the track.
Isn't that what infield road courses are for?
Joe Gearin wrote: What a lot of road-race followers don't realize is that NASCAR fans find F1, IMSA and PWC races to be horribly boring. Just as we compare NASCAR races to flushing a packet of Skittles, they don't see how we can stand to watch a single-file line (hello F1) with very little passing.
Yep. I enjoy IMSA, but to me F1 is horrid. I'd level the same third grade level insults that everyone in this thread levels about NASCAR. But to each their own. I enjoy all kinds of different racing, NASCAR included. Don't like all the changes, but give them credit for making efforts. For the non-fan, which it seems most here are, nothing they can do would be right. They just hate for the sake of hate.
Odd, but the drivers seem to be OK with it.
Often, one third of a race equates to time for a green flag pit stop, barring crashes.
Maybe the drivers won't be stopping every time there is a yellow flag for a crash.
Much strategy for the crew chief to figure out.
The usual 500 mile race CAN get boring.
BlueInGreen44 wrote:logdog wrote:Chumpcar probably isn't fast or crashy enough to be entertaining for most. However, the mayhem and drama in the paddock as everyone scrambles to fix their broken crapcans... You could sell thatcaptdownshift wrote: Honestly, with this new format, I'd rather watch AER or even Chumpcar races if televised.Chump teams are starting to use racecast. You cant watch our car because all we have is a cheapo dash cam but Im sure you can watch from the leaders car as they lap us.
It would be like the pre-requisite car show "thrash before SEMA," except the builders would actually go out and use the car when they are done instead of polishing it with a diaper.
We don't hate for the sake of hating it is we are getting old and remember how it was. It was not broken then now it is. That is the problem.
My plan for NASCAR is as follows
Qualifying should be you come to a stop at start finish line and from a standing start you make a lap. Then you take the cars and make a tree like they do in the NHRA and let them race in pairs around the track from a standing start off the exit of pit road and do two laps ending at start finish. Kind of a NHRA meets NASCAR. you would get 40 or so really close races. If you got good enough the whole show would be less than 2 hours and they could easily control things so the TV adds would ot be a problem.
KyAllroad wrote:Klayfish wrote:Eh, I'm ok with it. If they want to make the big bucks strapping in to a sponsored race car they can take their chances. Factory floor pan, shape, block, and driven wheels. Beyond that, completely open rules. Technology would start to flow back into the sport and also force the manufacturers to up their game. Might even induce some European carmakers to join the fray. I'd be way more interested if there was a Jag, a Maserati, and an Audi out there.Sanchinguy wrote: I'll be the "get off my lawn" guy and suggest that NASCAR return to a true "stock car" format and require cars to built on production vehicle unit bodies. Maybe that'd bring the manufacturers back into the game and maybe even bring back some interesting RWD platforms...Somehow I think requiring them to build cars that go 180mph and are based on a street car meant to go 65mph down the highway is not a good recipe for driver safety. I would be in favor of requiring the race car to mimic the production car in all dimensions and shape, that would be cool (at least in theory), but they need to be 100% custom fabricated race cars. We're well beyond the days of using stock OEM parts.
Ur joking right?
Wall-e wrote: In reply to slefain: It was, Matt Kenseth winning the championship with one win is what led them to start tinkering with things.
But I don't see a problem with that. Maybe he didn't win, but he was consistent.
I don't have cable, so pretty much all racing is dead for me, TV-wise...
dean1484 wrote: We don't hate for the sake of hating it is we are getting old and remember how it was. It was not broken then now it is. That is the problem.
But in my eyes, that's half the problem. People look at the "good ol' days" through rose colored glasses, not the reality of what it was. Not that it was bad, but it wasn't as glorious as people seem to remember. I've been watching since the early 80's. For the most part races were much less competitive then. The cars were more fragile, they were slower, they were much less safe. As I said before, I would personally be in favor of requiring the car to be a 100% dimensional clone of the street car, but be a full race car in construction. But in general, the actual cars and overall product is much better than it was 20 or 30 years ago. I think a lot of the complaining about NASCAR is a society thing. Short attention spans, microwave fast requirements, etc... Baseball has been having the same struggles. Frankly, many of the complaints about baseball are the same as NASCAR. The game is too long, not enough action most of the time, the season is too long.
My gut reaction when I heard the changes NASCAR was making was very much 
, but I'm not going to completely discount it until I see it in action. Even though I'm not sure I like it, I understand why they're trying to do this, so I'll give it a chance.
In reply to Ian F:
The problem NASCAR had was that Kenseth won on consistency but Junior was the favorite by far. They tweeked it again by putting the top 12 into the chase when he couldn't crack the top 10.
They need a better points system.
1st 100 pts
2nd 60 pts
3rd 40 pts
4th 30 pts
5th 20 pts
6th 10 pts
7th 6 pts
8th 4 pts
9th 3 pts
10th 2 pts
Finish 80% of race distance 1 pt
Lead one or more laps 1 pt
Overtake the leader on track at least once 1 pt
Pole 1 pt
In reply to Klayfish:
The problem NASCAR has, IMO, has more to do with it being made antiseptic for big money. The sponsors, advertisers, television, and the mythical "good family" who pays thousands for season tickets but turn out to really be corporate sales wonks.
When I followed it back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s there was no polish of any sort. Infield parties were wild, crazy all-weekend long things. Mayhem was guaranteed. The sort of thing you could see and take part in really nowhere else. They cleaned it all up and got rid of any unsettling acts of nudity, sex or mud bogging... and ... well, it was effective in sending tens of thousands of weekend campers elsewhere. I've never been back since they banned straight trucks with scaffolding, dirt bikes and kegs at Pocono. You can see better on TV and there isn't anything stupid and memorable going at the track anymore anyway.
The rest of the vibe was different too. Drivers spoke their minds on the podium for better or worse. They seemed real. It was much more dangerous and there is a powerful attraction to that kind of drama. People don't really want to watch a man die but they do want to know he is defying it the whole time. Racing is all about spectacle. Few people home in their loungers understand the nuances of driving fast in any way at all but they do understand fear and bravery. They cheer for bold moves, scold for risky things and cringe for wrecks. I can remember watching Davey Allison go airborne and take a horrific tumbling ride into the infield at Pocono from atop a scaffold 100' away. The whole place full of 250k people knew that was really bad. For 15 minutes it was as quiet as a race track can be. People were chewing their nails and pacing and wringing hands. He got hurt pretty bad and they took him off in a helicopter to deafening cheers. NASCAR (and all racing except motorcycles really) is so safe now that the spectacle is gone. With it goes the stomach wrenching connection to the drivers. Why cringe? You are literally watching people drive some, then go home in a limo. Why even watch unless you have money on it?
TL/DR:
There are not many people out there who want to watch men skillfully do battle and all walk away healthy, wealthy and smiling... add in the spectacle of death and maybe a few lions? They'll fill the Colosseum.
Just take the drivers out of the cars:
Put each driver in a simulator seat, remove all the speed limiters from the cars, put up strong catch fences, and let the best operator win.
In the early days they would sometimes do three races in a weekend, short tracks, dirt and paved. Same car. Towed with a box truck and open trailer.
My how things have changed.
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