In reply to tuna55:

I highly doubt intentional......the original idea could be right(porsche got loose on rumble strip) is more plausible

The only reason I mention it could the the DW's fault due to where the porsche is on the track, what is the racing line, did the DW leave enough room for the porsche to make the next turn even, and could the porsche driver even see the DW on his inside(and in relation to that cars inherant near impossibility to see it)

As stated before, I'd play devils advocate in this one. Personally I'm sad to see both cars wrecked, I like the effort the DW guys have put in and love the concept, but I for one would be extremely peeved to even be involved in an accident with a car that has no class......(prolly what the porsche driver felt) and led to the finger for the "wtf" hands.....Theres always more of a story, and the video title lessens what I think of the hicroft guys.....they wanted a provocation in the autosport community.

If you look at the right front wheel of the Porsche from the Wing in-car, you can clearly see it's turned slightly left

Keep in mind I have never driven RA, I'm probably talking out of my ass. If so, please correct me.

The Porsche is angling in at first, the wheel is straight. If you watch carefully, you can see it start out straight, then turn left. The DW driver was sticking to his line, the Porsche was the one all over the place.

Early in the vid from the car behind them, the Porsche is to the DW's right coming into a left turn and looks like he's on the race line (the dark line on the track), then goes across the track to end up on the DW's left in a right hand turn, in the process cutting across the DW's nose. That's what I would call not real good line selection. When I looked at it again, honestly neither driver was in a good position or truly on the racing line at that point. But there was no contact.

The DW hits what I would consider the correct apexes of both the left and right hand turns even though he seems to have come in too far to the left in the left turn, then continues straight up the track at approximately the middle (leaving plenty of room on his left for the Porsche to be between his car and the bridge) and that's when he overtakes the Porsche, which by this time is on the rumble strips. Immediately after that is what I call the 'overcorrection' and ensuing crash.

I'm not so sure the Porsche driver wasn't pissed at the DW's driver for the shenanigans in the left hander, then decided to teach him a lesson. That's not good.

As far as being passed by a 'non classed' car, so what? Why should that mean anything? That being the case they are not racing for position, unless this is like LeMons wheneveryone is racing for first regardless of how you are classed. (Oh, yes he DID compare these to LeMons cars! )

When I was racing hare scrambles, my class was white numbers on a black background. If another bike near me had a different color combo, they were not in my class therefore it was pointless to race them unless they were slowing me down. A pass meant nothing, position wise.

The plot thickens. Googling "Peter LeSaffre" gives me links to his GTC career (short) and the CEO of a corporation.

Pay to play guy in the Porsche? Not saying you're wrong, Tuna..but they're not all Allan McNish out there. That being said, LeSaffre is probably pedaling that car around the place faster than I could. I never had anything with that much power (and it's been about 15yrs since I raced anything).

friedgreencorrado wrote: The plot thickens. Googling "Peter LeSaffre" gives me links to his GTC career (short) and the CEO of a corporation. Pay to play guy in the Porsche? Not saying you're wrong, Tuna..but they're not all Allan McNish out there. That being said, LeSaffre is probably pedaling that car around the place faster than I could. I never had anything with that much power (and it's been about 15yrs since I raced anything).

This Allan McNish?

Just kidding Allan, I love you.

I think it's just an unfortunate racing incident. The DeltaWing made a pass that accorded the Porsche just enough room on the Deltawing's left. Unfortunately, the Porsche was using up all of the road and then some, all but assuring that he would shoot back onto the main racing surface off the rumble strips. He did just that and even lost the car momentarily. This is when contact was made. It sure looks unintentional.

Maroon92 wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: The plot thickens. Googling "Peter LeSaffre" gives me links to his GTC career (short) and the CEO of a corporation. Pay to play guy in the Porsche? Not saying you're wrong, Tuna..but they're not all Allan McNish out there. That being said, LeSaffre is probably pedaling that car around the place faster than I could. I never had anything with that much power (and it's been about 15yrs since I raced anything).

This Allan McNish? Just kidding Allan, I love you.

Funny you should mention that, that accident had a lot in common with the one we're discussing. Fast car passing a slow car, slow car moves over a bit cluelessly and takes out fast car.

The WTF! hands are fully understandable on the part of the Deltawing driver, especially when he's full of adrenaline. Drivers aren't robots.

In reply to Maroon92:

Well played, sir. Well played.

The GTC class is all pay for play. That's why they are spec cars.

The LMP spec class has the mix of the pro and amateur drivers in it.

If you watch the whole season and pay attention to the GTC class you'll see that some drivers do better than others. That Green car has had its share of troubles certainly as had the Gold car and a couple others.

Personally, the DW should have left more room between it and the GTC, but conservation of movement is what the drivers are paid for and he didn't expect the Porsche to get loose next to him like that, so they are both at fault at the end of the day. Best to try and get the cars back on track and go racing or pack it up and get ready for the next event.

In-car from the Porsche:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT1BpoWW06M

Seems to have been edited to cut off just before all the, er, hand signals. The DW is clearly visible in the inside rear view mirror as the Porsche goes across the track at the left turn. It's also obvious that he ran onto the rumble strip, he goes back on the track holding the wheel straight and you can see the steering get twitched left in sort of an 'oh, crap' move just before the hit.

My verdict: Racing incident, although the vid is titled 'test session'.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

I watched that clip on another board and made the same observation.

A lot of people seem to think the Pcar driver can't move around enough to extend his arm and/or finger. From the looks of it in the video, yes, he does. It makes one wonder about the editing, too.

The DW could have, maybe should have, chosen a better place to pass or stayed further to driver's right. But, it would have helped if the Pcar driver had looked in his mirrors, too; the DW was all over his butt at the entry to T10A and going for the inside line at the exit of T10B.

Looks more and more like a racing incident with both contributing to the mayhem.

Finger or no?

I get the impression from the incar of the porsche that he would have followed the same trajectory even if he hadn't hit the deltawing.

live cam stream link linkage

Same Guy!!

34 Peter LeSaffre just punted Luhr off course and into a wall.

They just interviewed Luhr. They asked him what he was thinking as he stuck close to the car as it got on the flat bed. He answered "E36 M3"

And Luhr was the overall leader!

Aaaand they just blamed it on Luhr. Derp.

Damian Faulkner tried a bit in that interview . . . LeSaffre didn't want to be interviewed . . .

Luhr tried passing two cars at once. And then, when he saw the gap closing, kept on coming on. He shoulders a lot of the blame on that one.

Curmudgeon wrote: Finger or no?

About a page late and a fiddy short

So, whats the highlight reel for the petit?

In reply to yamaha:

Not very exciting actually, only 6 retirements out of the whole field, the few crashes called out were what they were, but most were off-road excursions. There were a couple of electrical/fuel/tire problems but everyone seemed to be able to get back to the pits after a full shutdown/restart or getting dragged out of the kitty litter.

The best class was GT, again. Exciting to watch Ferrari, Corvette, Porsche, BMW all have leads in the last hour of the race and really mix it up. Ferrari finally finished the race guessing on their fuel (2 years ago they ran out leading the race right before 10a on the last lap with Corvette 30 seconds behind), so kudos. The Ferraris were fast, seriously fast, the C6Rs just didn't look like they had as much punch, but were consistently fast.

The Delta Wing was what I honestly went for, and it didn't disappoint. That thing is tiny, and quiet (for a gasser). They finished 6th overall behind 1 p1 and 4 p2 cars, they were up to 3rd/4th at one point. It wasn't very fast up the hills, but it made up for it with ridiculous corner exit speed/acceleration, it looked like the other cars were standing still after corner exits next to this thing. It was worth the price of admission IMO.

Disappointing that Peugot/Audi/Toyota weren't there, the crowd was a bit smaller despite perfect weather. It's also remains to be seen how they shake out the class structure with the Grand Am merger and move to a US-only series. I think it's a bad idea, but I don't know what issues ALMS is dealing with internally.

Time-lapse video of the rebuild here:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/10/deltawing-crash/

One thought about this that has been missing. Perception of the Delta Wing as it overtakes another car. With standard cars the driver being overtaken glances over and sees the faster cars fender/bumper/headlights/hood and mentally makes room for the car as it pulls along side. The driver glances over, sees the nose of the DW and thinks "I'm 4 feet away from that sucker.. Plenty of room." And then hits the wide rear.... I am glad it was repaired and went on to do very well.

In reply to noddaz:

Yes, but the repaired car had day-glo orange rear-view mirrors and roll-over protection, bout time, I still think the nose needed the same treatment:

From the folks that brought us the Professional Racing Forum User League:

Warning: funny looking stealth-black race cars in your mirror may be closer than they appear. In fact, one is probably passing you right now. Please try to not punt it off the track.

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