Depreciation Kings that get a Bad Rap

In reply to CobraSpdRH:

Steering racks, steering pumps and clutch wear are a couple of the common bigger ticket issues for dealer service (4k for a rack, 1500 pump, 5k clutch). I'm thinking they are somewhat diy jobs - with a debate on whether you need to plug in to a dealer after a clutch replacement. The GRMer in me wonders about a corvette transaxle and megasquirt. 2005 consider them parts cars, some 2006 ok, 2007/8 got the ZF transmissions. The v8s are pretty much out of the 360 modena and pretty reliable - not that I've ever looked into it . For realistic DD duty a boxster seems to be the ticket with even some s models getting well under 10k. I'm hoping the caymans depreciate the same - but I kinda doubt it.

SEADave wrote:

Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: Also I'm seeing that the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S depreciated like a rock. Not sure about the reliability however.

I've looked at Cayenne's, both Turbo and NA. Some scary reliability reports out there...

Dunno about Cayennes, but my boss's Touraeg V8 had major issues with both the engine and the body.

Every time you put the hatch up, water would pour out of it between the inside of the glass and the inner trim panel somewhere. Even when it hadn't rained in days. It had never been wrecked. Needless to say the power hatch was out of service. There were many similar issues, in addition to late-Oughties VAG electronics.

He paid a mint for that thing, and it was utterly used up at 100,000 miles.

captdownshift wrote: It's incredibly vanilla, but the Toyota Avalon. Used ones go for less than similar year and mileage Camrys, yet you get much more car.

Aren't the Lexus ES series about the same as the Avalon? Seems like it would depreciate even more...

2008 for less then 15K

java230 wrote: Im interested to see what people come up with! The big merc luxobarges seem to be a good cheap/fun factor (Cotton?? ) has two now I believe.

Yep I have both a 2003 CL600 (coupe) and 2003 S600 (sedan). The CL has been my DD for the last 8k mikes or so. I have found these cars are not nearly as scary as the internet, including some on this forum, had made them out to be. With the tools I have on hand, including a pad lift like a lot of the tire shops use, plus the addition of a $600 dollar cloned STAR diagnostic setup, I've been able to repair anything either of them needed. The hydraulic suspension is problematic, but I just converted the CL to a traditional coilover setup for just under 1k, so that is a very good option for one that is starting to have a lot of suspension issues. However, when I was repairing the hydraulics I found it was DIYable and there were cheaper alternatives for the factory hoses etc, but I got to the point where 1. I didn't trust it for my DD on a 14 year old Benz with right at 200k, and 2. a lot of the hoses etc are hard to get to and I didn't want to deal with that.

The s600 is still hydraulic, but it only has 138k, as opposed to the CLs 195k or so. If the hydraulics start giving me fits on it I might convert it as well. I also still need to rebuild the turbos on the s600, but I'm getting several of my cars ready to sell right now, which is taking most of my time. Once those are out of the way I'll tear back into the S600.

Currently I'm on the hunt for a CL65 or S65 with needs. If I find one of those I might sell both of the others.

Other highly depreciated cars I've considered?

Cayenne Turbo

E55 Benz (especially the wagon!)

Aston Martin Vantage

Bentley Continental GT (this is very very high on the list). I've talked to a couple of owners and they speak very highly of the cars.

Any cheap Porsche (I just can't help myself)

There are others I'm forgetting too so may have to add more as they come to me.

The Phaeton doesn't get a bad rap. It really is bad to keep everything in it going. I assumed this was more about cars that depreciated a lot faster than they should, due to an incorrect reputation for how bad they are to take care of, or just simply because they have low demand in the used market,

I'd add the Fiat 500 Abarth to the list, though. There are some problems with them, but they don't seem to be too widespread. They depreciate like crazy, though. I'd still suggest seeing if you can get one with a bit of warranty left, just in case.

Get yourself a Flying Spur.

Easy enough to maintain and can be had sub 45K if you look for a very good one with low mileage. Other then suspension parts wearing out and O2 sensors and the occasional starter and third brake light issue they are darn near bulletproof.

2002maniac wrote:

captdownshift wrote: It's incredibly vanilla, but the Toyota Avalon. Used ones go for less than similar year and mileage Camrys, yet you get much more car.

Aren't the Lexus ES series about the same as the Avalon? Seems like it would depreciate even more...

IIRC--- sort of. The ES is a gussied up Camry, the Avalon is a stretched Camry. The ES wouldn't be as big, but is likely to be as trouble free as anything with a Toyota / Lexus badge. Avalons are big cars--- with the interior space of an LS430, just in a FWD package. They are tremendous cloud machines for those who don't really care about driving.

I have thought a lot about Quattroportes and a little bit about Arnages...

Closer to the bottom end but I got a 370hp of supercharged v8 1998 jaguar luxury for challenge budget.

Basically anything jaguar depreciates like used exercise equipment.

I'll throw out in the SUV category, Toyota Sequoia. Tundras, Tacomas, and 4Runners definitely hold their value (like most Toyotas), but the Sequioa is the black sheep. Same year/miles as 4Runner, a Sequioa that originally cost $10-20k more than the 4Runner can now be had for $5-10k less, especially late first-generation models. Pretty much same drivetrain, same suspension, and more room for less money.

Seems like the full-size GM trucks hold their value pretty well, perhaps not the big Ford SUVs like the Expedition and Excursion too....

In reply to SEADave:

My landlord bought a cheap Cayenne, with the intention of reselling it and making some spare cash... A month later it was misfiring on 4 cylinders with half a dozen different expensive trouble shooting possibilities... Not the spark plugs or something exactly easy to diagnose

Not in reply to anyone:

I would go 91-94 Sentra, there is one down south I want soooooo much, 4 door $200 not a bit of rust... Fwd Sr20dets cost labor for just diagnosing issues at dealerships. All what used to be the best parts sell for next to nothing. For $1000-2000 or so it wouldn't be hard to put together a reliable, street sweeper,350whp+ 30mpg econobox that corners around 1g....

Dsms are in that neighborhood too but aside from the vrt Galant I don't know that they sold a good 4dr stateside.... Maybe a summit with drivetrain swap... Not sure about reliable there tho

jere wrote: Not in reply to anyone: I would go 91-94 Sentra, there is one down south I want soooooo much, 4 door $200 not a bit of rust... Fwd Sr20dets cost labor for just diagnosing issues at dealerships. All what used to be the best parts sell for next to nothing. For $1000-2000 or so it wouldn't be hard to put together a reliable, street sweeper,350whp+ 30mpg econobox that corners around 1g.... Dsms are in that neighborhood too but aside from the vrt Galant I don't know that they sold a good 4dr stateside.... Maybe a summit with drivetrain swap... Not sure about reliable there tho

Well sure, but that's not really a steep depreciation curve. That's just a 25+ year old econobox that you're wanting to cobble together.

The idea here is newer cars that lose their value in a hurry.

CobraSpdRH wrote:

oldtin wrote: If you're going down a rabbit hole - go deep - Maserati Quattroporte. Seeing 2006/7 cars well under 20k. Ferrari V8 goodness. After 2005 a lot of the clutch issues got resolved (early cars ate clutches if you used reverse much, or at all - basically manual transmissions, but paddle shifted and no 3rd pedal - later cars got actual automatic transmissions that worked).

So this is an example of huge depreciation, but is it deserved? I would be inclined to say "yes", based on maintenance and upkeep costs, but I haven't had the opportunity to prove or disprove it. Seems like a lot of good options, but how many of these would actually be fun to bring home and not break your wallet? The Infiniti's seem like a good choice, but are a fraction of the depreciation of some of these other cars. The Boxster seems like a really good contender as well.

Even if the engine popped on the way home, I'd love to just park that beauty in my garage so I could sit in a lawn chain on Sunday mornings, just looking at it sipping coffee.

I bought my '06 Cayenne Turbo S two years ago for $100k LESS than original sticker price.

So far I have 134k miles on it, bought it with 109k. Nothing but normal maintenance on it.

As with any older German luxury car, you have to buy one that's been maintained. Records, records, records! Otherwise expect to feel the pain....

eastsidemav wrote: The Phaeton doesn't get a bad rap. It really is bad to keep everything in it going. I assumed this was more about cars that depreciated a lot faster than they should, due to an incorrect reputation for how bad they are to take care of, or just simply because they have low demand in the used market, I'd add the Fiat 500 Abarth to the list, though. There are some problems with them, but they don't seem to be too widespread. They depreciate like crazy, though. I'd still suggest seeing if you can get one with a bit of warranty left, just in case.

Agree, this was the premise of the thread. Seems like the big body Mercs get a bad rap unnecessarily, and I like the Jag idea as well.

I've noticed the 500 Abarth convertibles are hovering around $10k, which is crazy. Wish I was in the market for a 2-door. Also, I've seen Cayenne multiple times but seems people are on both sides of the fence.

To throw another one out there, I wonder if the old Equus is a good opportunity with Hyundai creating the new "Genesis" brand. Also, I see LS430's like crazy down here in FL for a fraction of their MSRP with next-to-no miles.

docwyte wrote: I bought my '06 Cayenne Turbo S two years ago for $100k LESS than original sticker price. So far I have 134k miles on it, bought it with 109k. Nothing but normal maintenance on it. As with *any* older German luxury car, you *have* to buy one that's been maintained. Records, records, records! Otherwise expect to feel the pain....

Lawdy thats some depreciation. 10k a year in depreciation

CobraSpdRH wrote: To throw another one out there, I wonder if the old Equus is a good opportunity with Hyundai creating the new "Genesis" brand. Also, I see LS430's like crazy down here in FL for a fraction of their MSRP with next-to-no miles.

I want to say I've heard there are some issues with the first gen Equus/Genesis models, but I haven't really done any serious research.

I've been watching LS430 prices drop, too. I think a lot of it has to do with large luxury cars being a status symbol, so they don't hold up pricewise in the used market. I'd be leery of an early LS430, due to the Mark Levinson issues, but by 03 or so, the stereo became better. The big issue (which I discovered after buying a GS430) is that if you get one with the Levinson stereo and Nav, it becomes a nightmare to replace the stereo, and the amp is unreliable. I'm still impressed that I haven't really seen many beaten looking LS430s, since they are now cheap enough to be relatively common at BHPH lots. I can't remember where I read it, but unsurprisingly, the best years for the LS430 are supposed to the 04-06 models.

yupididit wrote:

docwyte wrote: I bought my '06 Cayenne Turbo S two years ago for $100k LESS than original sticker price. So far I have 134k miles on it, bought it with 109k. Nothing but normal maintenance on it. As with *any* older German luxury car, you *have* to buy one that's been maintained. Records, records, records! Otherwise expect to feel the pain....

Lawdy thats some depreciation. 10k a year in depreciation

I paid 3k for my CL and it was like 140k in 2003! Granted, it needed A LOT of work when I got it, but I've worked through all that now. I bought it from the original owner and felt bad he lost so much money on it, but he didn't seem to care. He still owns a newer SL65.

irish44j wrote: the Sequioa is the black sheep.

For some reason, I thought the Sequoia was a USDM only SUV, but it seems I was wrong. In any case, I looked at these when I was in the market for a used SUV and I can attest the prices are lower.

What the lower prices don't tell you is that it 100% of them seem to have signs of hard kid or dog use. Without looking hard I could find dog drool, a french fry or fruit snacks in 100% of the ones I looked at.

Caddy CTS V1s can be had relatively inexpensively. I picked up this example for $13k, with 83k on it. New in '05 it was about $50k. Some well-known areas that need attention like the noisy rear diff, but none that are dealbreakers in my opinion. And the 400-horse LS6/T56 is pretty much bulletproof.

I really like the Gen 1 CTS-V's...

All this is doing is making me look at 10 year old Boxsters and Caymans again.

STOP IT GRM. STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

The next generation M45 is significantly more attractive and regularly stomped it's competition in all comparos (550I, E550,LS460, whatever Jag equivalent). BMW driving fun and sporting demeanor with Lexus reliability. Best DD I have ever had by far, an E46 feels like it was clapped together with plastic clips in comparison. I would try to get one with the tech and sport package to get some impressive tech for it's day. I would say if you want something luxurious and very reliable while being in that sweet depreciation spot without being too archaic the M45 and LS430 are some of the best options out there.

The Infinity will have a more sporting demeanor (it's actually pretty tail happy with the dynamic 4 wheel steering; Sport Package) while the Lexus will isolate you from the road better. To appreciably improve on this car I feel like I would have to get into an W212 E63 but those are about 4-5 times the cost at the moment so we will wait a couple of years.