Duster engine choices

Alright. After lots of good input on my harebrained Supra suspension idea, now I'm looking for advice on an engine. (FWIW, I think the suspension route is going to be Supra IRS in the rear, torsion bars up front with a rack and pinion conversion).

Now I'm trying to figure out motivation for this beast. I've briefly flirted with a turbo 2.2 (I could REALLY piss some people off with that) and a stroker Jeep 4.0 (it's a Chrysler motor...sorta), but I think I'm going to be looking at some derivative of the 5.9 Magnum or a new Hemi (well, new to me). Transmission will most likely be a A-833 OD at first, with eventual plans for an R154 out of a supra.

So....new Hemi, or 5.9 Magnum? Right now the car has a very, very stock 360 out of a mid 70's van, with a Torqueflite. I like the fact that a Magnum will drop right in, but aluminum heads (maybe necessary to hit my power goal?) will probably cost about as much as the whole Hemi. I'd like to see 350ish rwhp, a streetable idle, and good reliability, as cheaply as possible.

What does the brain trust reccommend?

There was a video of a Sundance or a Shadow or something equally silly with a SRT4 motor facing the wrong direction mated to (I think) a supra transmission making something like 700hp to the rear wheels. I think that would be a fine way to go myself.

i think ill leave this here: http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?71755-70-duster-updating-and-a-no-dough-pro-touring-makeover

and i lay 390 at the wheels on junk gas.

Buy my Dakota, please Totally customized 360 with custom 46RE tranny (shift kit, kevlar guts) and posi rear end (3:92 gears). About 5,000 km on entire drivetrain, attached to a dented, rusty body. Whole mess should plop right into your Duster with a with a bit of ingenuity.

mazdeuce wrote: There was a video of a Sundance or a Shadow or something equally silly with a SRT4 motor facing the wrong direction mated to (I think) a supra transmission making something like 700hp to the rear wheels. I think that would be a fine way to go myself.

Not an SRT-4 motor, that's an old school 2.5 Mopar with a Neon DOHC head. That video was what had me toying with the idea of a turbo 2.2.

4bt?

No reason your existing 360 couldn't be brought up to those specs. But it will add up. I haven't dynoed my Barracuda, but the LA 360 in it will push it to mid-12's at 109 MPH with 3.55 gears. Using LA 360 short block, Speed Pro pistons, Comp retrofit roller cam, Edelbrock heads, intake & carb.

Starting with a Magnum 360 you already have a roller cam setup and better heads than the stock LA heads. Plus they are pretty easy to come by.

The combo we've put together a couple times for A-bodies is a junkyard Magnum 360, Comp 264HR-12 cam with matching springs, Edelbrock Magnum RPM Air Gap intake, 750 CFM carb, LA 360 passenger car oil pan & pickup. Will push an A-body deep into the 13's with mild gears and a Torquefllite.

The 5.7 Hemi is a sweet motor. Fits well in an A-body with manual steering. Exhaust won't clear the power steering box. With your planned R&P swap, I have no idea where everything would line up. Might fit better. Just be careful with the rack setup. I haven't seen a R&P swap while keeping the torsion bars that didn't screw up Ackerman.

Rob_Mopar wrote: No reason your existing 360 couldn't be brought up to those specs. But it will add up. I haven't dynoed my Barracuda, but the LA 360 in it will push it to mid-12's at 109 MPH with 3.55 gears. Using LA 360 short block, Speed Pro pistons, Comp retrofit roller cam, Edelbrock heads, intake & carb. Starting with a Magnum 360 you already have a roller cam setup and better heads than the stock LA heads. Plus they are pretty easy to come by. The combo we've put together a couple times for A-bodies is a junkyard Magnum 360, Comp 264HR-12 cam with matching springs, Edelbrock Magnum RPM Air Gap intake, 750 CFM carb, LA 360 passenger car oil pan & pickup. Will push an A-body deep into the 13's with mild gears and a Torquefllite. The 5.7 Hemi is a sweet motor. Fits well in an A-body with manual steering. Exhaust won't clear the power steering box. With your planned R&P swap, I have no idea where everything would line up. Might fit better. Just be careful with the rack setup. I haven't seen a R&P swap while keeping the torsion bars that didn't screw up Ackerman.

I understand most of the R and P swaps are drag guys looking to save weight. I could probably get by with a manual steering box, assuming I couldn't make the geometry work with the R and P. Is anyone still making a quick-ratio manual box? Last time I looked around (six years ago or so), Firm Feel had quick-ratio manual steering boxes,but now they're NA on the website.

As for the motor, yeah, the whole point behind doing either a 5.9 Magnum or a Hemi is the fact that they're pretty powerful box-stock, and I like the concept of keeping it EFI (although a carb is not out of the question).

There are a couple of how-tos out there for swapping the ignition control module from a Chrysler unit to a GM unit.

Add to that the fact that the TBI units Chrysler and GM used are pretty similar and the GM TBI swaps are very well documented and you could use a Mopar TBI intake manifold and GM TBI and be ready to go.

Last I checked the 833s are so expensive you're probably better off going straight to the toy box.

The reason Firm Feel dropped the fast ratio manual box from their site is the fast ratio worm gear supply is gone. They were using NOS Chrysler pieces.

Flaming River has a 16:1 manual box but they use a cast iron case, not the aluminum one like the factory. It's lighter than the power steering setup, but nowhere as light as the manual aluminum box. At least the weight is low in the chassis.

If you want to keep the Maggie EFI, I'd go with a Megasquirt. (Or maybe buy Lesley's Dak and swap everything over. )

I'd also swap out the intake for something that can breathe. The beer barrel intake is for low end grunt. It's out of breath around 4500 RPM. They have been modded by hacking back the runners on the plenum side to shorten them up, and the plenum can be filled with epoxy to reduce its size to something more useful. But the opening for the throttle body is only so big.

For a dual plane I'd look at the Hughes Engines version of the Ed Air Gap. It's a bolt on piece for the Maggie and uses the truck fuel system pieces and throttle body. It's also cast by Edelbrock for them.

For a single plane there are a couple off the shelf choices from Ed and Mopar Performance. Some of the Mopar Performance ones have been out long enough now that used ones pop up from time to time.

And going stick, for the work you are looking to do to the car, I'd go right to the Supra trans swap. I have a buddy in TX that did it with his Valiant. Maybe this thread will give me an excuse to drop him a line...

I already have everything but the clutch, pedals, and hump to put a four-speed behind a 360/5.9. Otherwise yeah, it wouldn't really be worth the effort. Still not 100% sure I won't go straight for the Supra trans.

NOS parts explains why no more firm feel pieces. If I stick with the Magnum, I could cobble together fast ratio power steering from Firm Feel (they are seriously proud of that E36 M3, though).

Having read up on mounting/adapting the Hemi, I'm seriously leaning towards the Magnum. The Hemi's not hard, but the Magnum is about a drop-in.

I have a Firm Feel Stage II box in the Barracuda. Its nice. Much nicer than stock. I think my pump is putting out a bit too much pressure so it's still a little looser than I'd like, but I'm picky. I need to get some gauges and see what's going on there.

Firm Feel goes through the whole box and re-calibrates it. They do spend some time in there. It's not just a parts store fresh seal & spray bomb rebuild. The box isn't cheap, but the prices have been the same for a very long time too.

The power steering ratio (15.7:1) is just about the same as the fast ratio manual box (16:1). They have longer pitman arms available to quicken up either box. I have that setup on my wife's Challenger with power steering. I think it would be a bit of a bear with the fast ratio manual box.

Another FYI, the balance weight for an LA 360 and a Magnum 360 is different. What flywheel do you have?

Flywheel is an LA 360 piece. Did the 5.9 Magnum ever get put in front of a manual trans from the factory? I have never seen one, and IIRC only the 5.2 could be had with a stick. Can I modify the stock LA flywheel to work with the Magnum?

Having refreshed myself on the steering stuff, it looks like I probably want a Stage 2 Firm Feel box with stock pitman and idler for clearance purposes. The stock ratio isn't exactly slow, like you pointed out.

psteav wrote: Flywheel is an LA 360 piece. Did the 5.9 Magnum ever get put in front of a manual trans from the factory? I have never seen one, and IIRC only the 5.2 could be had with a stick. Can I modify the stock LA flywheel to work with the Magnum? Having refreshed myself on the steering stuff, it looks like I probably want a Stage 2 Firm Feel box with stock pitman and idler for clearance purposes. The stock ratio isn't exactly slow, like you pointed out.

Sorry, didn't get back to this thread until tonight.

The balance weight on the Magnum 360 is less than the LA 360. The factory did have a few manual 360 Magnums. I think they were mostly in 2500's with the HD 5-speed. Aftermarket flywheels are available for the Magnum 360 too. The Mopar Performance one is P/N P5249842

Or you could use a 318 flywheel and have a machine shop balance it for the 360 Magnum.

I don't have the weight numbers handy or I would just post them here.

mguar wrote: want something from left field? A Jaguar V12 and yes it will fit! (if they can stuff one in a Miata you'll have an embarrassment of space) It's long but very narrow..

Well I guess that would even things up for me wanting to put a Magnum 360 in an XJ6...

On transmission choice, two things to consider:

http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf

And

http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_5-Speed_Flyer_2010-11-18.pdf

The 2nd one may be vaporware and is definately pricy, but a bolt in.

On the motor, I'd slap an Edlebrock top-end on it (maybe with Hughse porting and cam), and call it good.

350whp on a 5.9 magnum is going to require a totally different top end..

But i still lean that direction a bit because it's easier to get it in the car and upgrade as you can rather than dealing will all the difficulty of the swap up front with a hemi.

If you lose motivation/funding in the middle of a magnum swap you may still end up with 250whp. If you do the same in the middle of a hemi swap, it probably will not be running at all.

Mine's probably close to that with a Mopar intake manifold, mildly cleaned up heads, bored out throttle body (53mm), 1.6 roller rockers, custom B&G flashed pcm, KRC 210x Cam: 210/220-512/512 110, windage tray, ceramic headers and bigger injectors.

The motor in my '66 Dart Pulls about 330 RwHp on the MPC Super Flow Chassis Dyno. Ported iron ...302 heads with 1.94"/1.6" Valves, Edlebrock LD4B intake, 750 QFT carb, 10.1:1, TTI Headers, 0.600" lift mech roller cam. Runs on 93 octane:

Dave

I know Mopar guys turn their noses up at it, but I really liked the 4.7L in my ex's '00 Dakota. She still has the truck & has never had an engine problem.

I always wanted to drop it into a Prowler, but I recall from back then that there wasn't much power difference between the 4.7 and the 360 in the R/T. I bet the 4.7 is way cheaper though.

I liked the 4.7 when it first came out. Pretty gutsy motor. Long term they have gotten a reputation for oil coking up in them. Granted a good bit of that is probably from maintenance neglect, but finding good junkyard 4.7's is a bit harder than a 5.9. I haven't looked in a long time, but used 4.7's were pricey for a while.

There's limited aftermarket support of the 4.7 too.

Vigo wrote: 350whp on a 5.9 magnum is going to require a totally different top end.. But i still lean that direction a bit because it's easier to get it in the car and upgrade as you can rather than dealing will all the difficulty of the swap up front with a hemi. If you lose motivation/funding in the middle of a magnum swap you may still end up with 250whp. If you do the same in the middle of a hemi swap, it probably will not be running at all.

Yeah. I tend to get overambitious with projects. Getting it in the car and running will be pretty simple. Also, if I do go 5.9, a Hughes top-end kit is in in the works. Initially I'm thinking go with either the stock EFI and a mild cam, or a Thermoquad and worry about the EFI later, with a mild cam.

No difference in exhaust fitment between Magnum and LA, right?

And I will run screaming from the 4.7. I have never heard anything good about them and was underwhelmed by the two I drove. And yeah, they are next to impossible to find good in a yard.

cpdave wrote: On transmission choice, two things to consider: http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf And http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_5-Speed_Flyer_2010-11-18.pdf The 2nd one may be vaporware and is definately pricy, but a bolt in. On the motor, I'd slap an Edlebrock top-end on it (maybe with Hughse porting and cam), and call it good.

The Passon stuff is neat, but if I'm throwing dollars at it I think I'd probably go Kiesler. Also, hasn't the five-speed Passon box been "just around the corner" for a couple of years now?

I think that would have some serious appeal if the car had collector value or I had any other reason not to want to cut it up. But I don't.

Turbo slant 6?

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Turbo slant 6?

I like where this guys head is!