The underside of our Ody has plenty of room for batteries if the rest goes.
I would be in the market if something is available in the next 18-24mos when ours is likely to get past the point of bothering to fix. I would definitely want the range to be 250ish hwy for those longer hauls, and the charging network robust enough down I95 to support it.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Just measured my Stow 'N Go equipped GC, looks like about 11" in the middle row area from carpet to the underside of the seat storage bins. The lowest part in the middle of the car is indeed the exhaust; lowest areas in the rear are the axle beam and trailing arms.
The loss of totally fold-flat seating, and the huge storage areas that exist when the seats are up, would be my biggest reservation with a hybrid or EV minivan. All but one of my rear seats spend a lot more time folded than up, and the storage compartment for the seat that is permanently up is the perfect place for tools/fluids/emergency kit.
In reply to newrider3 :
I'm thinking that the bottom of the battery can be level with the bottom of the ICE exhaust system - you're measuring from the top of the floor itself. 11" thick is room for a lot of battery, I can tell you that the Model 3 pack is less than 5" deep.
I don't know why "totally fold flat seating" would disappear, but I don't know the mechanics of where the seats go or how much depth is required for that particular trick. If you need to get within 5" of the lowest point in the vehicle to make it happen, then you may have a problem.
The Model 3 has a roof height consistent with (or lower than) many other similar sized sedans. Same with the Model S. Do they have a higher floor?
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
I like the Canoo but the rear seating is dumb.
In reply to newrider3 :
The Pacifica Hybrid still has the same rear 3rd row fold-flat seating as every other Chrysler has.
You only give up the second-row stow and go that only exists in Chrysler products. The Hybrid's second row chairs are extremely comfortable as a result but need to come out if you want a flat floor all the way to the front seats, similar to a Toyota or Honda.
I bet they could make the whole thing EV with at least a 200 mile range if they deleted the exhaust, engine, etc etc. and still keep the 3rd row fold-flat design.
Erich said:In reply to newrider3 :
I bet they could make the whole thing EV with at least a 200 mile range if they deleted the exhaust, engine, etc etc. and still keep the 3rd row fold-flat design.
I am hoping for this plus 300 mile range. I really need that flat folding floor. It's a pickup and a people hauler in one.
The new sienna totally missed the mark with stupid 2nd row non removable seats. The point of a minivan is to be versatile including loading large items into the rear.
I think marketing dropped the ball trying to make minivans soley for families. There's a big crowd into outdoor hobbies and van life. I have no kids I just want a minivan to lock up my expensive mountain bikes and snowboards, and I can take my dog camping and sleep in the back. Basically what this silly overlanding 4runner/Crosstrek crowd does but with much more functionality of a van.
93EXCivic said:In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
I like the Canoo but the rear seating is dumb.
Everything is brilliant other than this. I applaud their inventiveness, but yeah, just normal benches please.
ProDarwin said:The Model 3 has a roof height consistent with (or lower than) many other similar sized sedans. Same with the Model S. Do they have a higher floor?
Not noticeably. I could probably wear a top hat in ours. It sits beside the E39 M5 and they both feel very similar inside and with step-in height. There are likely differences but they don't show up in regular use. I think it all comes down to the fact that minimum ground clearance of the ICE is from some random thing hanging down while the minimum ground clearance on the EV is the whole battery pack.
In reply to twowheeled :
Amen. That is why I love my Element. The side folding seats are the single best thing ever fitted to a car. Mine lives as a three seater.
I've been waiting for an EV minivan for years now. I am cautiously optimistic about the Buzz, but can't say for sure until I can see one in person and know what the cargo space is like. I am less concerned about the people-carrying abilities and more with the "box-on-wheels" abilities. And the price. I want an EV for the "not buying gas" convenience, but while I'm willing to pay for that, there is a limit - how much I can't say yet.
That said, my wants and needs have been greatly reduced since I no longer have a regular commute.
I also agree with the comment about minivan use and long trips. My plan is to have a larger van for long trips, but I can understand how most minivan buyers would buy one with long trips in mind and that is one area where ICE vans still have an edge over EVs.
Keith Tanner said:I don't know why "totally fold flat seating" would disappear, but I don't know the mechanics of where the seats go or how much depth is required for that particular trick. If you need to get within 5" of the lowest point in the vehicle to make it happen, then you may have a problem.
Add in the exhaust, subtract floorboard thickness, call it 12". Eleven inches of that are needed to stow the second row seats. If you look from the side, you can just see the compartment peeking below the rocker panels. The seats are about 10" thick folded, and I've seen a few members here say they're the least comfortable seat possible, so there might not be much meat to trim. Hence the Pacifica Hybrid doing away with second row Stow 'N Go.
This is how mine looks more often than not.
Aside from the magic seat folding, the compartments themselves are extremely useful. I will admit, I cheated and slid both front seats all the way up to get the compartment doors to open fully.
Gotta fold at least one second row and one third row seat if you want to haul more than a couple pieces of 8' lumber, fold everything and you can haul a few 4x8 sheets. Mine came with a "mini console" which was swiftly removed to allow for 10' material to fit inside with the door closed.
twowheeled said:I think marketing dropped the ball trying to make minivans soley for families. There's a big crowd into outdoor hobbies and van life.
Did you buy your van new or used? Manufacturers really only care about new car buyers (that's who gives them money), used buyers are a distant second (but not quite zero, they push up resale value which helps with brand appeal).
Most of the people I know who buy minivans for purposes like that are buying them used.
As for stow-n-go, it may depend on flexible they can be with the shape of the battery packs and how much volume they need. Perhaps the batteries can be fitted around the cubbies.
The VW ID Buzz or whatever it will be called is definitely on it's way. Many lightly camo'd versions have been seen driving around. it's an easy one as now, unlike before, they don't have to certify a drivetrain, just the crash worthiness of the body on the modular EV platform. Here are the lightly camo'd versions, but you can see pretty easily what they will actually look like with the camo removed:
And lastly, this image seems to be a pretty accurate rendition of the production version:
And it's definitely coming in both passenger and cargo versions.
Having the batteries extend beyond the axles would add some packaging difficulties, so you'd probably have room to sling an underfloor cubby under the cargo bay. I know our car has a fairly deep "basement" under the load floor. You also get the possiblity of a frunk.
Here's what a nekkid Mach E looks like, you can see that anything behind the rear wheels is sheer bonus space - I expect the front has at least some minimal cooling/pumps/other hardware competing for that space. That hump of extra battery in the back could be put under the front seats, possibly. Seeing the various designs come out of the OEs will be interesting, as I rate minivans and full size pickups as the two types of vehicles the US automakers are truly good at.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
No frunk. Forward rumble seats. That way you can keep an eye on the kiddo in a rear facing child seat without a network of mirrors or cameras!
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
What could go wrong? It's a genius idea.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
True. I bought both of mine used, although the second one was used only because the dealer didn't have a new Pacifica in the spec I wanted. In hindsight, I probably should have bought the Pacifica and lived without the Stow-&-Go. The underfloor cubbies could be useful. I've considered removing all of the rear seats and fabricating a floor over the openings with hinged panels.
I haven't seen my center or rear seats in over two years... the van is perpetually in cargo-mode for bike hauling and occasionally camping.
While I want a new EV minivan, I have to admit it's not high on my list of needs. And I don't see me getting one until I have the long-distance trip vehicle first.
The Mach-E looks like a good starting platform, although I think the front axle line needs to move forward 6-12 inches, which would result in more interior space.
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:EV's are a tough sell as a rental car right now, unless its something cool like a Tesla
Teslas may have been cool a few years ago when they were the "new thing," but at least in this area, White Teslas are the new Beige Camry. They're everywhere, must be 20 in my neighborhood alone, and they all look identical...same wheels, same trim, same everything. They're the new yuppie appliance. Nobody takes a second look at them around here.
sobe_death said:Another big thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that the expected fold flat seating in minivans is currently pretty incompatible with the floor being a battery pack. From what I remember, even the Pacifica Hybrid couldn't fold the seats flat due to the battery location.
This was definitely something I meant to bring up, but I figured a battery's shape is fungible, so assume you can build it to go around the stow-away seats or something, perhaps?
Keith Tanner said:In reply to newrider3 :
I'm thinking that the bottom of the battery can be level with the bottom of the ICE exhaust system - you're measuring from the top of the floor itself. 11" thick is room for a lot of battery, I can tell you that the Model 3 pack is less than 5" deep.
I don't know why "totally fold flat seating" would disappear, but I don't know the mechanics of where the seats go or how much depth is required for that particular trick. If you need to get within 5" of the lowest point in the vehicle to make it happen, then you may have a problem.
I mean, most minivans have pretty big gas tanks as well, which would go away. Not sure where they are on stow-and-go models offhand, but is the battery pack a lot bigger than a 20-gallon gas tank? (actual question, I don't know).
If I'm doing my math right, the Model 3 battery pack has a volume of 88 gallons. So, yes.
Keith Tanner said:If I'm doing my math right, the Model 3 battery pack has a volume of 88 gallons. So, yes.
hmm, didn't realize they are so big!
Keith Tanner said:I don't know why "totally fold flat seating" would disappear, but I don't know the mechanics of where the seats go or how much depth is required for that particular trick.
On the Pacifica PHEV I think it's because Chrysler used that space for battery storage in order to retrofit an existing platform.
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