Fiat Spider, what am I missing?

thread from 2013, zombie canoe

70's era Fiat 124s seam like great deals right now. I see four in the Atlanta metro for less than 3 grand in DD condition. What is there out there that should stop me from driving one every day? What should I look for?

There's no particular mechanical reason not to. The high (low?) points: They are a bit fragile electrically but 90% of that can be cured with a wire brush and dielectric grease. Every Fiat I have ever owned or been near has had caliper sticking issues. 124's seem to be more prone to this on the rear. The cure: rebuilt calipers (duh). But it does seem to reoccur fairly often. Fiat had a ginormous recall for rust issues back in that era, so check the 'frame rails' (it's a unibody) very carefully for rust.

If you haven't driven one, go put a few miles on one first. The seat/steering relationship is sorta weird, a bit eighteen wheeler-ish. It might not bug you but when I climb out of the Jensen with the nearly vertical steering wheel and hop into a Spider with a more horizontal tiller it just feels funky.

They are a lot of fun to drive, that's for sure.

electrical issues dont bother me, I have 2 TR-7s. They helped me get over my adversity to rust as well. And stuck calipers don't bother me either, I have a Ford Aspire.

Shoot, where reliability is concerned a Fiat would be like a Honda when compared to a TR7.

sweeet, I might go test drive one soon then.

the problems fiats have with electricity is the grounds. Clean the grounds and you should be fine.

Rust is the killer. The fenders on the car are welded on.. all four of them. Rust likes to lurk behind the front wheel wells, all around the rear wheel well arches, and the sills.

Good news is.. you do not actually need sills to keep the car stiff. Most of the strength of the spider is in the trans-tunnel.

Sticking brakes are warped calipers. Do not rebuild them, toss them and buy new. If you rebuild, the problem will just come back in a couple of months.

Best advice, avoid the 78 and 79s. The 78 was an interium year and parts are a mishmash of 124 spider and spider 2000. 79 and parts of 80 still used a carb with the larger 2 litre engine. it is a DOG compared to the smaller 1800 and the fuel injected 2000s.

If you want one.. try looking for an 80s pininfarina azura. same car, but without the fiat badging. They are a little better put together.

And the absolute thing you must do when you buy one. REPLACE THE TIMING BELT ASAP! They are only good for 20 to 25,0000 miles and if you do not have documentation on when it was last done.. assume the worse and do it before you start driving the car. 2000s will freewheel.. 1800s become paperweights

Concerning resale value.. a 1974 Spider retailed for $3400 - $3600.

Not bad, huh?

Shameless plug for the guys I've bought about 90% of my Alfa parts from.

http://www.international-auto.com/

They like Fiats, too.

Had one about 10 years ago (a 1981 injected 2.0L). I wish I had it back, but I was 18 and I wrecked it.

Rust is the big thing. Transmissions are slick shifting and a pleasure to use when in good condition, but are not known for being robust. Differentials are also on the weaker side. Electrical issues are usually a bad ground.

I greatly prefer these to most British droptops of the era. They are more comfortable and usable. There are also people making 600-800hp from them using different heads and turbos.

Wheel options are limited because Fiat uses a 4x98mm bolt pattern. It's super close to the more common 4x100, but the two don't interchange. People have modified hubs to accept the more common sizes.

I was in the same boat, i went and drove a Fiat 2000 Spider, loved it, very simple, most of the electrical problems can be cured by replacing the barrel fuse boxes with modern style fuse box and fuses...

BAMF wrote: There are also people making 600-800hp from them using different heads and turbos.

yes, the same basic engine design as the original fiat 124 lasted all the way into the 90s in both the lancia Delta and the Fiat Coupe'.

And yes, the 16v turbo head from the Delta Integrale will bolt on with some work.

My handy learn-all-about-them intro to Fiat Spiders: Introduction to the 124/2000 Spider Good advice given above. Early small bumper cars are going to be hard to find in nice shape. The 1800 carb and 2 litre cars are the easiest to find. If you find a particularly tasty 79-80 carb model, you can retrofit the 1800 intake system to make them run better. Rust is the big deal on these, they were made from some of the worst steel ever created. The 2 liter cars have fender liners in the front which does help some. Front shock towers are critical above the front A arm. The rest of the perforation prone areas are generally pretty easy to see.

International Auto is okay, and has a nice catalog. I'm a believer in going to specialists on these, however, such as Midwest 124, C Obert & Co, Bruce's Parts Bin, etc as they are a bit more intimate with the cars than IAP's staff.

mad_machine wrote: yes, the same basic engine design as the original fiat 124 lasted all the way into the 90s in both the lancia Delta and the Fiat Coupe'. And yes, the 16v turbo head from the Delta Integrale will bolt on with some work.

I guess you didn't get the Fiat Coupe in the US then? The 16V turbo coupe has IIRC pretty much the same engine as the 16V Integrale.

No Fiat Coupe. Fiat was long gone by the time that and the Barchetta came out. They left us in 1982.

yes, the coupe' and the barchetta would have saved them here in the US.

The coupe was pretty successful in Europe although the 20V engines have a reputation for being barstewards cambelt wise because there is so little space to work on them due to the width of the engine. You rarely see Barchettas - the answer to that question was probably Miata over here as well. You see the odd one in Continental Europe but pretty much none of them in the UK as they were only available in LHD.

Are these cars IRS? The body style is one of my all time favorites. I'm pretty sure spridgets used the 4X98mm bolt pattern, so there are some wheels out there.

I think they've got a live axle (much like the Alfa Spider/Graduate) but at least no cart springs.

Wouldn't 4x100 wheels with wobble lug nuts work for the 4x98?

the 124 series, aside from the rare Fiat Abarth 124 Rally all used a solid axle. The earliest A series used two trailing links and a torque tube, the later cars all used a 4 link set up with a panhard rod.

Replacing rear shocks is a major PITA as the shocks live inside the springs which mount to the TOP of the axle.. so to change shocks, you need to drop the whole axle.

splitime wrote: Wouldn't 4x100 wheels with wobble lug nuts work for the 4x98?

Yup.

Jensenman wrote:

splitime wrote: Wouldn't 4x100 wheels with wobble lug nuts work for the 4x98?

Yup.

Nuts or bolts for the 124's?

IIRC, my 128SL used bolts. Not sure if that applies to rwd Fiats.

bolts on the 124,X, 131.... the europeans seem to like that system.. and honestly, so do I. One less point of failure

They have bolts, which suck if someone before you removed the line-up pins on the hub. It's also difficult to find longer bolts if you go to a wheel with a different hub thickness, but stud conversions aren't expensive.

The rear shocks aren't that bad to do. Dropping a rear axle in a 124 is pretty darn easy thanks to the trailing arms. Remove 3 bolts and lower with a jack...big deal. At least you can reach the bolts easily. The front shocks...ugh.

splitime wrote: Wouldn't 4x100 wheels with wobble lug nuts work for the 4x98?

So random... I 100% did not have one of these in my mind back when I was hanging around this thread.

Whoops...