Hey TDI Owners...

alfadriver wrote:

Slippery wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to bigdaddylee82: Don't complain when your state decides not to renew your registration. Thus letting you waste whatever you spent on the car...

Has something like this ever happened?

Not that I'm aware of, but I can't say that it won't happen. It's a pretty easy thing to do, after all. Just pointing out the possibility.

I understand, but I think this is one of those things that is easier said than done.

Slippery wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

Slippery wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to bigdaddylee82: Don't complain when your state decides not to renew your registration. Thus letting you waste whatever you spent on the car...

Has something like this ever happened?

Not that I'm aware of, but I can't say that it won't happen. It's a pretty easy thing to do, after all. Just pointing out the possibility.

I understand, but I think this is one of those things that is easier said than done.

Given that states know what each car is, specifically, by the VIN number, it's super duper easy. Just like it would be easy to have insurance companies charge a premium for a specific car.

So, let's say you've got one of the 15% remaining cars. (VW only has to buy back 85%, there is NO incentive to bleed themselves further by going beyond that) Where are you going to buy parts for it? I highly doubt that VW is going to continue to import or even stock anything TDI-specific. And, depending on what happens in the rest of the world, there may not be a foriegn market for boutique shops to import the parts from.

So, get paid $20k now, or hang on to an orphan that may very well end up completely worthless except for niche kitsch? (Hmm, this is the GRM forum I'm posting to...)

In reply to Knurled:

I hear they got evurthang on them interwebs.

TL:DR - Denying registration of affected vehicles isn't very likely, but a buy-back is.

The draft mitigation has a few components to it. One being customer reimbursement. As of yet, there is no approved mechanical or software fix proposed. It will very likely be a buy-back, however it hasn't been determined what that means. It could be a full refund or it could be some type of prorated refund or it could be a credit toward a new car or a combination. Another part of the mitigation is an allotment of $2.7B for States to be applied toward projects that reduce NOx. There are four caveats that States must agree to if they agree to be a beneficiary. And I quote (same basic language is used for 3.0L):

Registration of 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles:

The Beneficiary certifies, for the benefit of the parties to the Consent Decree (including the Settling Defendants) and the owners from time-to-time of 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles, that upon becoming a Beneficiary, the Beneficiary:

(a)Shall not deny registration to any Subject Vehicle based solely on:

i.The presence of a defeat device or AECD covered by the resolution of claims in the Consent Decree; or

ii.Emissions resulting from such a defeat device or AECD; or

iii.The availability of an Approved Emissions Modification or the Buyback, Lease Termination, and Owner/Lessee Payment Program.

(b)Shall not deny registration to any Subject Vehicle that has received an Approved Emissions Modification based solely on:

i.The fact that the vehicle received the Approved Emissions Modification; or

ii.Emissions resulting from the modification (including but not limited to the anticipated emissions described in Appendix B to the Consent Decree); or

iii.Other emissions-related vehicle characteristics that result from the modification; or

iv.The availability of an Approved Emissions Modification or the Buyback, Lease Termination, and Owner/Lessee Payment Program.

(c)May identify 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles as having received, or not received, the Approved Emissions Modification on the basis of VIN-specific information provided to the Beneficiary by the Settling Defendants.

(d)Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Beneficiary may deny registration to any Subject Vehicle on the basis that the Subject Vehicle fails to meet EPA’s or the Beneficiary’s failure criteria for the onboard diagnostic (OBD) inspection; or on other grounds authorized or required under applicable federal regulations (including an approved State Implementation Plan) or under Section 209 or 177 of the Clean Air Act and not explicitly excluded in subparagraphs 9(a)-(b).

As an FYI (for those thinking of speculative purchases)here are the affected vehicles:

2.0 liter diesel models and model years

• Jetta (2009-2015)

• Jetta Sportwagen (2009-2014)

• Beetle (2013-2015)

• Beetle Convertible (2013-2015)

• Audi A3 (2010-2015)

• Golf (2010-2015)

• Golf Sportwagen (2015)

• Passat (2012-2015)

3.0 liter diesel vehicle models and model years

• Volkswagen Touareg (2009-2016)

• Porsche Cayenne (2013-2016)

• Audi A6 Quattro (2014-2016)

• Audi A7 Quattro (2014-2016)

• Audi A8 (2014-2016)

• Audi A8L (2014-2016)

• Audi Q5 (2014-2016)

• Audi Q7 (2009-2016)

California is basically its own country, so if you live anywhere else, your State is unlikely to turn down this VERY large pile of "free" cash and your registration and your VWs future is up to you. As I mentioned, just this one part of the punitive settlement is costing VW $2.7B. There's another chunk about that size going to the Feds, as I recall. Then there's the customer reimbursement. A very costly gamble for VW.

In reply to Apis Mellifera:

Except the part where eleven other states mirror California's emissions laws. (Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington) That's a pretty large (physically and population-wise) swath of the country able to (and already announced that they will) deny registrations.

Knurled wrote: So, let's say you've got one of the 15% remaining cars. (VW only has to buy back 85%, there is NO incentive to bleed themselves further by going beyond that)

Actually, the remaining cost of buying back the remaining 15% is lower than the projected cost of engineering a solution that will pass emissions standards, retrofit the cars, and still pay the bonus to the owners. There is also a possible reduction in fines if VW achieves 100% buyback. Make no mistake, there won't be any TDI's left when this is over.

Javelin wrote: In reply to Apis Mellifera: Except the part where eleven other states mirror California's emissions laws. (Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington) That's a pretty large (physically and population-wise) swath of the country able to (and already announced that they will) deny registrations.

A lot of those states require Cali emissions on new cars sold there but don't hold cars to the Cali requirements after the fact (no checks for CARB stamps on the cats, etc.)

Exactly my point. The registration provision was put in specifically because of California and the others. If any State chooses not to be a beneficiary, they lose a great deal of money and their portion is divided between those that do participate. It is a draft proposal that made it across my desk last week. States may well have stated their course of action prior to this, but it will interesting to see what the money does to those positions. As I recall, the deadline is October 2016 for a response from each Governor then there is a period of public comment. Nothing is set in stone yet.

Does anyone know how this will be handled from a tax perspective?

Will the buy back be treated as the value of the vehicle, or treated as the value of the vehicle + $5K.

My understanding is if it is the value of the vehicle + $5K, the $5K would be taxed as income if it is seen as a punitive damage.

Has anyone heard anything about how this will be treated? I am trying to figure out what I am going to do in Nov when they buy back my Jetta.

Harvey wrote:

Javelin wrote: There is no approved 2.0 "fix", they will *all* be bought back. (They are only fixing the 3.0 V6 ones). You will get $5000 and the full KBB Retail value from pre-dieselgate, or you can hold out for an individual suit. Either way, you aren't keeping the car.

I can't see that happening. There are a significant number of people that will want to keep the cars that will raise hell if the government insists they have to give up them up.

I do not think with the terms of the settlement that you ahve to do anything.

Devilsolsi wrote: Does anyone know how this will be handled from a tax perspective? Will the buy back be treated as the value of the vehicle, or treated as the value of the vehicle + $5K. My understanding is if it is the value of the vehicle + $5K, the $5K would be taxed as income if it is seen as a punitive damage. Has anyone heard anything about how this will be treated? I am trying to figure out what I am going to do in Nov when they buy back my Jetta.

My understanding is that it is not taxable. Howver, i am not an accountant.

Javelin wrote:

Knurled wrote: So, let's say you've got one of the 15% remaining cars. (VW only has to buy back 85%, there is NO incentive to bleed themselves further by going beyond that)

Actually, the remaining cost of buying back the remaining 15% is lower than the projected cost of engineering a solution that will pass emissions standards, retrofit the cars, and still pay the bonus to the owners. There is also a possible reduction in fines if VW achieves 100% buyback. Make no mistake, there won't be any TDI's left when this is over.

Interesting....thinking of what to Replace my Jetta with...leaning towards a new WRX at this point...

Javelin wrote: In reply to jimbbski: False. No unfixed cars will be allowed on the road. The targeted number of buybacks is 85%. That means only 15% will be fixed. There are penalties to VW for every percentage point under 85 that they don't buy back, so you better believe they'll be getting all of them they can. Word on supplier street is still no fix, 100% eventual buyback.

Did not catch that this was from suppliers, but this makes sense.

Javelin wrote: Make no mistake, there won't be any TDI's left when this is over.

Except pre-dieselgate cars. Like mine. Hmm...

I wish VW would fix their valuation tools.... Still.

Been a long year of being in vehicle limbo but the settlement is finally approved!!

Reuters Article

About damn time.

Still 08 up right?

Silver lining,

The "we're sorry" package from VW included $500 worth of VW parts/service credit, $500 prepaid Visa, and 3 years worth of road side service.

We left the Halloween party at 1:30 this morning, didn't have pockets in my costume/tunic, laid my keys in the back floor board while loading up, apparently I inadvertently hit the lock button while loading up. I closed the hatch the horn beeped, and the car was locked. SWMBO's purse with her set of keys was in the back seat, my keys were in the back hatch.

Borrowed the party host's phone, and started calling 24 hour lock smiths, first one I got in touch with, said that it'd start at $75 and go from there depending on labor.

Friend mentioned having locked his keys in his old Hyundai shortly after he got it, and had Hyundai assistance that saved him. That's when I recalled the 3 years of road side assistance that came with the customer care package.

I called VW, had a lock smith there in about 30 minutes, and he was in the car in less than 2 minutes. Amazing what you can do with a plastic wedge, blood pressure cuff looking thingy, and a long metal rod with a bend in it.

Where is everyone at in the buy back process? I signed up and submitted all my paperwork, which was approved. That was back in late Oct. I have heard nothing since then. When I signed up on the claims portal it gave me a tentative buy back date of 11/15. I called recently and was told there were more claims than they were expecting and couldn't tell me anything else useful.

Anyone actually been able to schedule a buy back yet, or have any idea when they will be able to?

Being stuck in a state of limbo for over a year now with this car is really annoying.

A friend on FB posted recently about having to get something notarized that was related to the buy-back. Not sure what that means in relation to status, tho.

On 11/18, I received an email from VW that said:

The offer letter for your claim with reference number, [my number], for VIN [my VIN] is now available on the Online Claims Portal.

Your offer letter will include instructions concerning what steps to take if you decide to accept the offer. Please note that you will be required to sign the document in the presence of a notary in order to accept the offer and move to the next step in obtaining your selected remedy.

And the letter tells me that I am eligible to participate, and tells me the settlement amount.

We're trying to decide what to do at this point. Initially, I was gung ho on selling the car back, but I've cooled on that prospect. Mainly because I can't decide what car out there I would replace it with.

Devilsolsi wrote: I called recently and was told there were more claims than they were expecting

Hmm, 5 million cars on the road, we'll probably get like ten claims right?