I had no idea these things were so cheap

Knurled wrote: ...A car review said that the interior was designed and assembled with the same German meticulous attention to detail that prevented them from winning two world wars.

Though funny, from an historical perspective, there is some truth to that, but likely the opposite.

Germany was obsessed with making things as high a quality as possible as well as "super" weapons. E.g. Tiger tank which could almost shoot through 2 Shermans when released but had greatly increased cost and reduced maintainability. A Tiger wildly outclassed Shermans and most other tanks, but the US could build many more Shermans (or Russia T-34's) for the cost and effort (adding in the US's insane production capability made this worse of course).

Another example is the V2. Although super advanced and essential unable to be defended against, it took huge effort to design, build and deploy yet did very little (strategically) damage because it could only be aimed at city sized objects (making it just a terror weapon).

In reply to aircooled:

That's not the opposite, that is exactly what the writer meant. Intricate, beautifully engineered design. Sadly this is not what you need when you've overextended your supply route, you need a whole lot of cheap crap that you can fix with a hammer and a prybar. Or just walk away from because you're getting more.

A'course, the concerted effort of the Allies to rip the heck out of the rail networks, bridges, and other infrastructure necessary for a hidden/compartmentalized industrial capacity to function, also didn't hurt.

In reply to Knurled:

Having been around racing bike stiff since 1980, i completely disagree. Campy is not only gorgeous but amazing in quality and design. Admittedly, the super record stuff from the 80s was so far superior to be rediculous but even now, I still they are the best.

Oh, OK.

Regarding the infrastructure comment. I am almost finished with Masters of the Air (a very good book on the US strategic bombing campaign which apparently will be a movie / mini-series eventually). The attempts to disrupt Germany's industry where somewhat limited early on (eventually pretty effective on oil). The attacks on bridges and rail only happened in support of troops after D-day and they found that also had a noticeable effect on industry.

In retrospect, had they realized that the Germany's rail system was central to industry and ran on coal (which that had a good supply inside Germany), they could have crippled industry by attacking coal production instead of oil. A side-effect of that would also be that most of Germany's heating was done by coal also, which probably would have been more effective at turning the populace against Hitler then Britain non-stop terror bombing.

I just texted the dude out of curiosity and the mileage is 180. I'm not interested in the car but am amazed at the price.

In reply to joey48442:

If the engine doesn't smoke, it's a winner.

The funny thing about Audi V8s is, they don't have cylinder liners, just plating. Engines that suffered from long OCIs would start to burn tons of oil in as little as 60k miles. Acids in the oil would wreck the plating. With proper servicing they can go 300k+.

Can't tell if that's a chain engine or belt engine. The switchover was sometime in that time frame. Chain engine, I'd want to see service records of chain replacement. On the other hand, 90+% depreciation in ten years, you could replace the chains yourself and still get one hell of a bargain.

In reply to Knurled: Judging by the amount of brake dust on the wheels(even the spare), I'm not sure I have much trust that routine maintenance was a priority.

Also, if you trust KBB, that's a $3500 car in the best-case scenario.

I would imagine the only thing more expensive than a cheap Phaeton would be a cheap BMW 8-Series. And the only thing more expensive than a cheap 8-Series is a cheap boat.

What I'm saying is you need to just cut out the middle man and buy an airplane.

In reply to STM317:

Call KBB up and buy one. While you're at it, get a few of the $6,000 Honda S2000's.

A heroin habit would cheaper and less damaging to your marriage.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

More fun too.

Woody wrote: By the time I finally got around to checking out the trunk hinges, I was kind of disappointed in them.

They look like someone fleeing an African war zone could stow away in one.

In reply to MDJeepGuy:

That's why I said "if you trust...". KBB isn't the gospel obviously, but like it or not many people use it to estimate what a vehicle is worth. It can be wrong, but if you try to sell a car above KBB value, you have to be ready to try and convince everyone why it's wrong.

JG Pasterjak wrote: I would imagine the only thing more expensive than a cheap Phaeton would be a cheap BMW 8-Series. And the only thing more expensive than a cheap 8-Series is a cheap boat. What I'm saying is you need to just cut out the middle man and buy an airplane.

The only thing more expensive than an airplane is a free airplane.

Assuming it is all working now, you have to take the approach that it's disposable. You drive it and only make cheap/free fixes until you reach your personal limit of aggravation with whatever is broken, then you dump it. Accept that it may take its final drive on the rollback towards the junkyard and you won't be disappointed.

Same car listed on Lansing Craigslist.

Mileage is 180,000

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5923097985.html

aircooled wrote:

Knurled wrote: ...A car review said that the interior was designed and assembled with the same German meticulous attention to detail that prevented them from winning two world wars.

Though funny, from an historical perspective, there is some truth to that, but likely the opposite. Germany was obsessed with making things as high a quality as possible as well as "super" weapons. E.g. Tiger tank which could almost shoot through 2 Shermans when released but had greatly increased cost and reduced maintainability. A Tiger wildly outclassed Shermans and most other tanks, but the US could build many more Shermans (or Russia T-34's) for the cost and effort (adding in the US's insane production capability made this worse of course). Another example is the V2. Although super advanced and essential unable to be defended against, it took huge effort to design, build and deploy yet did very little (strategically) damage because it could only be aimed at city sized objects (making it just a terror weapon).

I hold a serious grudge against the Germans and the country to this day so take this with a grain of salt. But near the end of the war they really did abandon the German precision builds when they went to arm the populous. Some of the last ditch weapons were crude in the best of definitions. They got the message at the end of the war, but how in both WWI and WWII they through they could out produce the rest of Europe in arms is just staggeringly stupid.

FYI That is what in my world is called a 2.5K parts car, plus its not the W12 so no baller status to be had.

JG Pasterjak wrote: I would imagine the only thing more expensive than a cheap Phaeton would be a cheap BMW 8-Series. And the only thing more expensive than a cheap 8-Series is a cheap boat. What I'm saying is you need to just cut out the middle man and buy an airplane.

Probably sound advice. What kind of trunk hinges would I find on a plane?

The only thing more expensive than a free airplane is a free Maserati Biturbo

penultimeta wrote: The only thing more expensive than an airplane is a free airplane.

Don't research the cost of things if you're interested in flying because you'll never get started. The costs are mind-blowing. A friend has a unique Beech Baron w/380hp engines. The overhaul on those things was something like $60k. Per side.

Knurled wrote: A8s can be had for simiar money and are a fair bit lighter since they're aluminum, whereas Phaetons are steel bodied. Ignore the naysayers whose only experience with VW are low-rent Jettas and A4s that were neglected from birth. These cars are solid.

This. Get the Audi. Aluminum don't rust.

STM317 wrote: In reply to MDJeepGuy: That's why I said "if you trust...". KBB isn't the gospel obviously, but like it or not many people use it to estimate what a vehicle is worth. It can be wrong, but if you try to sell a car above KBB value, you have to be ready to try and convince everyone why it's wrong.

According to KBB I should be able to buy a front drive Passat with no mechanical or cosmetic problems for $750 or something silly.

People overreport vehicle condition and underreport price when transferring titles. This is probably why KBB values are so silly.

Mister Fister wrote:

Knurled wrote: A8s can be had for simiar money and are a fair bit lighter since they're aluminum, whereas Phaetons are steel bodied. Ignore the naysayers whose only experience with VW are low-rent Jettas and A4s that were neglected from birth. These cars are solid.

This. Get the Audi. Aluminum don't rust.

The steel bodied VWAG products don't really rust, either. I've pulled rotted control arm mounts off of A4s and the shell was pristine, even right next to where the mount had crumbled.

Of course, prior body repairs will destroy the rustproofing. And they didn't really apply this super-resistant whatever magic until '94-98 or so, so all the worthwhile VWs dissolve like Alka-Selzer.

markwemple wrote: In reply to Knurled: Having been around racing bike stiff since 1980, i completely disagree. Campy is not only gorgeous but amazing in quality and design. Admittedly, the super record stuff from the 80s was so far superior to be rediculous but even now, I still they are the best.

Owning a Campy Record equipped road bike with 1st year (1992) Ergopower, I agree with Knurled initial assessment. It took a good 5 years of regular riding for those shifters to break in and start feeling smooth. Even now, over 20 years and many thousands of miles later, the shifter action still feels solid.

Woody wrote: It's a shame that the bulbs in Volkswagen Check Engine lights don't burn out as frequently as the ones in the headlights and taillights do.

this ought to be in the magazine