twowheeled said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
yea I realize it is quite a violent ride. However I'm not offroading whoops on this future vehicle. I want to drive roads like this, fast, and that's it. No obstacles larger than 6" or so. 
Once upon a time ago I owned a beater prius. I put on a new set of KYB shocks and stiffer springs and actually drove washboard at around 50-60mph with a set of ear plugs, dash and interior looking and sounding like they were going to break apart at any second. The shocks lasted maybe about 5000 miles before they blew. I imagine the same thing would happen with an avalon or land yacht. I don't think the suspension has the fluid capacity for prolonged abuse.
My Nissan Frontier with Old Man Emu suspension kit and stock sized Kumho HT51 tires would feel nearly like it's cruising down a paved interstate going about 80-90mph on that road in the picture... just a tad more bumpy but nothing too bothersome. Really like the OME suspension, was designed for surfaces like that at speed. Rides like a sportscar on pavement, but surprisingly smooth feeling yet responsive on light offroad stuff like that at speed.
Your request reminds me of this truck from this video years ago. Would be an absolute blast to own.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?index=1002&list=FLjB1JPW6-xkBvyXWlhlzRCQ&v=Mmh-ew1swD4
twowheeled said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
yea I realize it is quite a violent ride. However I'm not offroading whoops on this future vehicle. I want to drive roads like this, fast, and that's it. No obstacles larger than 6" or so.
Once upon a time ago I owned a beater prius. I put on a new set of KYB shocks and stiffer springs and actually drove washboard at around 50-60mph with a set of ear plugs, dash and interior looking and sounding like they were going to break apart at any second. The shocks lasted maybe about 5000 miles before they blew. I imagine the same thing would happen with an avalon or land yacht. I don't think the suspension has the fluid capacity for prolonged abuse.
I hate that corduroy road stuff. So frustrating. Just when you find the right speed, something changes and suddenly your teeth start falling out.
You don't need travel like a Trophy truck, you need (as others have said) cushy shock valving and marshmallow springs. There will alwasy be one frequency of road that will match the resonance of your setup, but what you're basically looking for is the setup that transfers the least amount to the bushings; unsprung weight, P-tires, squishy stuff.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
twowheeled said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
yea I realize it is quite a violent ride. However I'm not offroading whoops on this future vehicle. I want to drive roads like this, fast, and that's it. No obstacles larger than 6" or so.
Once upon a time ago I owned a beater prius. I put on a new set of KYB shocks and stiffer springs and actually drove washboard at around 50-60mph with a set of ear plugs, dash and interior looking and sounding like they were going to break apart at any second. The shocks lasted maybe about 5000 miles before they blew. I imagine the same thing would happen with an avalon or land yacht. I don't think the suspension has the fluid capacity for prolonged abuse.
I hate that corduroy road stuff. So frustrating. Just when you find the right speed, something changes and suddenly your teeth start falling out.
You don't need travel like a Trophy truck, you need (as others have said) cushy shock valving and marshmallow springs. There will alwasy be one frequency of road that will match the resonance of your setup, but what you're basically looking for is the setup that transfers the least amount to the bushings; unsprung weight, P-tires, squishy stuff.
That makes sense to me, because most stock half ton pickups ride horribly over washboard once the rear axle starts hopping. But can an avalon really take more than a mile of that before I have 4 leaking seals and empty shock absorbers?
It would certainly reduce the lifespan of dampers. Maybe you get 6 years out of them instead of 9?
Trucks are a frustrating engineering hurdle. The rear axle carries very little weight when empty, but is repsonsible for all of the payload. Engineers have to use spring rates that are on the high side of middle so they can handle the GVWR and ride suffers. The fronts have to be similarly suspended to match the oscillation frequency of the back or you would get a see-saw motion over bumps.
Something I have done before is yank all but one or two leaves from the back springs, add slapper bars to prevent axle wrap, and then put airbags on the rear. Then I can soften up the front a bit to match, and effectively make a fully adjustable rear suspension. Soft for empty, and still soft when I inflate them for weight.
Not a cheap or easy option, but a good way to get compliance AND capacity.
twowheeled said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
yea I realize it is quite a violent ride. However I'm not offroading whoops on this future vehicle. I want to drive roads like this, fast, and that's it. No obstacles larger than 6" or so.
Once upon a time ago I owned a beater prius. I put on a new set of KYB shocks and stiffer springs and actually drove washboard at around 50-60mph with a set of ear plugs, dash and interior looking and sounding like they were going to break apart at any second. The shocks lasted maybe about 5000 miles before they blew. I imagine the same thing would happen with an avalon or land yacht. I don't think the suspension has the fluid capacity for prolonged abuse.
That kind of washboard surface really puts a lot of heat into the shock’s oil. I’ve read of off the shelf bilsteins blowing in that environment on pick up trucks. I’d be looking at some Fox or Afco shocks on stock springs or similarly softish coil over type springs
I guess what I'm trying to find is SUV's, utes or cars with high amount of suspension travel and large enough wheel well clearance to fit larger diameter tires. These aren't really commonly listed figures so if you guys have any suggestions throw them out there. The reason I posted the Infiniti FX is that it looks like it has enormous wheel wells to fit those factory 20's but unfortunately comes with very little travel and stiff OEM shocks.
Any thoughts as to unibody vs bof? I find that BOF isolates smaller cracks and imperfections but on the medium sized stuff they seem to ride worse, due to the step down in stiffness? My 4runner did not ride particularly well over washboard.
LT1 Fleetwood with a body lift?
twowheeled said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
yea I realize it is quite a violent ride. However I'm not offroading whoops on this future vehicle. I want to drive roads like this, fast, and that's it. No obstacles larger than 6" or so.
Once upon a time ago I owned a beater prius. I put on a new set of KYB shocks and stiffer springs and actually drove washboard at around 50-60mph with a set of ear plugs, dash and interior looking and sounding like they were going to break apart at any second. The shocks lasted maybe about 5000 miles before they blew. I imagine the same thing would happen with an avalon or land yacht. I don't think the suspension has the fluid capacity for prolonged abuse.
One of my co-workers used to drive a 80 Series Land Cruiser with an Old Man Emu kit and some free 33 inch takeoffs over the desert roads, exactly like that, at 50+ mph every day for years.
It was a riot when I'd drive into work with him.
Maybe a good starting point is a 60’s or 70’s American car, as others have mentioned here. Compared to more modern cars, they all seem to have more travel by default, and built to take a good deal of abuse. Every old American car I’ve been under look like they have truck suspensions to be honest.
I’m not sure if you watch any of the roadkill shows, but I’ve always taken a shine to the episodes where they take 60’s muscle cars off-road, because they seem surprisingly capable. This might be a little more aggro than you are after, but they seemed to beat the crud out of this Dodge, which had little more than heavy duty shocks and the obviously larger tires.
But I think based on that kind of proof of concept, you could dial it back a bit and pick a low dollar classic, add some light truck tires with decent sidewalls, bolt on the beefiest shocks you can get to fit, and go let ‘er rip!
Vracer111 said:
twowheeled said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
yea I realize it is quite a violent ride. However I'm not offroading whoops on this future vehicle. I want to drive roads like this, fast, and that's it. No obstacles larger than 6" or so.
Once upon a time ago I owned a beater prius. I put on a new set of KYB shocks and stiffer springs and actually drove washboard at around 50-60mph with a set of ear plugs, dash and interior looking and sounding like they were going to break apart at any second. The shocks lasted maybe about 5000 miles before they blew. I imagine the same thing would happen with an avalon or land yacht. I don't think the suspension has the fluid capacity for prolonged abuse.
My Nissan Frontier with Old Man Emu suspension kit and stock sized Kumho HT51 tires would feel nearly like it's cruising down a paved interstate going about 80-90mph on that road in the picture... just a tad more bumpy but nothing too bothersome. Really like the OME suspension, was designed for surfaces like that at speed. Rides like a sportscar on pavement, but surprisingly smooth feeling yet responsive on light offroad stuff like that at speed.
The frontier and Xterra are a great option if you want a 4Runner alternative that is more reasonably priced. Not as much in the way of upgrades as a 4runner, but cheaper and they were made exactly the same from 2005-2015, so there are tons out there and plentiful parts availability. We had one with the OEM bilstein off-road suspension and it handled roads like that great, though I can see with an OME kit it would be even better.
Stock XTerras came with 265/75/R16 (31.5") and can fit 285/75/R16 (33") with some light trimming. With 285/75r16 that's 8.6" of sidewall.
You guys proposing the Tacoma make me giggle. A stock Taco sucks so badly on the washboard. The frame twists and bucks and the rear axle goes all over the place. I would think that in order to actually be okay on a bumpy gravel road, you'd have to brace the frame substantially and then throw $10k worth of position sensitive coilovers and hydro-bumps at it.
I've often thought that an older forester might be fun to modify with a set of blistein blanks. They're much cheaper to start with, and will be lighter than a Tacoma.
Also, my wife used to own a trailblazer that did pretty damn well on gravel roads. Dramatically better than my Tacoma did. Maybe a TBSS with the big nasty V8 would be a good base to start with?
I don't think anyone is saying a stock Tacoma will be the answer, it's more that it and other small pickups generally have more aftermarket support in terms of parts designed let you do this:
(yes I know that trophy truck isn't really related to any stock vehicle, but LOOK AT THAT SUSPENSION MOVE)
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
That gif makes me giggle. I must've watched it for five minutes...
In reply to rothwem :
I don't have any experience with the Tacoma, but I did daily a 1986 Toyota 4x4 pick-up from 1990 through 1996. The trick with driving that truck on rough roads was to not slow down. It took speed bumps at 50 MPH a lot better than at 15. One of those or tha follow generation (which were slightly less prone to rust) would be my choice.
...unless I could figure out how to get my hands on one of these...
in my opinion, that pretty ends the thread. 
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to rothwem :
I don't have any experience with the Tacoma, but I did daily a 1986 Toyota 4x4 pick-up from 1990 through 1996. The trick with driving that truck on rough roads was to not slow down. It took speed bumps at 50 MPH a lot better than at 15. One of those or tha follow generation (which were slightly less prone to rust) would be my choice.
My issue that I had with the Tacoma was that the frame was just so berkeleying flexy. You try to do what you describe and you can literally feel the whole truck bend in the middle and then spring back and then vibrate like a gong. Going over bumpy gravel, you can see the bed twist in the rear view, and the rear axle just shoots sideways. I've had two, a 2012 and a 2014, and both of them were just awful on a bumpy road.
Maybe the frame flex is what makes them decent on rock-crawling type stuff, but I would think that if I wanted to go fast on gravel roads, I'd want some serious frame reinforcement.
Or the Rally Spec Civic Type R you just posted 
In reply to rothwem :
Since the Tacoma frame tended to rust out and fail, yes - some reinforcement would be a good idea.
In some ways, I'd look at one of the older 4Runner models that were based on the pickup chassis. Then cage it to add reinforcement along with various suspension upgrades.
In all honesty, if I were really looking to build something like this, I'd buy a FRS-BRZ, wait until Chris finishes and gets his rally car sorted out - and then copy it. 
rothwem said:
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to rothwem :
I don't have any experience with the Tacoma, but I did daily a 1986 Toyota 4x4 pick-up from 1990 through 1996. The trick with driving that truck on rough roads was to not slow down. It took speed bumps at 50 MPH a lot better than at 15. One of those or tha follow generation (which were slightly less prone to rust) would be my choice.
My issue that I had with the Tacoma was that the frame was just so berkeleying flexy. You try to do what you describe and you can literally feel the whole truck bend in the middle and then spring back and then vibrate like a gong. Going over bumpy gravel, you can see the bed twist in the rear view, and the rear axle just shoots sideways. I've had two, a 2012 and a 2014, and both of them were just awful on a bumpy road.
Maybe the frame flex is what makes them decent on rock-crawling type stuff, but I would think that if I wanted to go fast on gravel roads, I'd want some serious frame reinforcement.
Or the Rally Spec Civic Type R you just posted
That has been my experience with pickups as well, the flex and reverberation of the chassis kills it for me. When the frame IS stiff enough like the current gen F-150, the rear axle walks around instead. Trying to drive a F-150 down a rough gravel road with a bit of a crown on it is a butt clenching, both hands on the wheel ordeal while the rear end walks itself into the ditch.
I used to have a ridgeline which had a much stiffer chassis along with IRS, but absolutely zero aftermarket support. As in nobody made shocks or struts for it.
As this is going to be a DD which is shared with the wife and winter driven, we do need convienences such as crumple zones and fuel injection.
A Volvo XC70 with XC90 struts/shocks might work if you can get some softer springs that are still stock XC90 height
im thinking about a similar car as my sexy daily. The XC70 and a BH/BL outback are my 2 front runners right now
V12 said:
I'd recommend looking at a Lexus GX 460, which is basically a Land Cruiser Prado with a hideous front end. It continually surprises me with how well it does on the trails. As a bonus, there is extensive aftermarket support for the GX 460 and 470.
Welcome fellow V12 enthusiast
Hear me out but Nissan Versa Sedan. They use them as taxis in Central and South American countries where their roads are worse than ours. I've taken my Versa Note down some rough gravel roads with no issues.
shagles said:
A Volvo XC70 with XC90 struts/shocks might work if you can get some softer springs that are still stock XC90 height
im thinking about a similar car as my sexy daily. The XC70 and a BH/BL outback are my 2 front runners right now
heck that's neat. I need to go to a subaru lot and pull out a measuring tape. I know a lot of the outback guys are craming in the biggest AT tire they can fit some of them even trimming sheet metal. That makes me wince, being in Canada if I tried something like that even with the best prep and paintwork I guarantee there would be rust after one winter.
In reply to twowheeled :
From what I remember, 31's will fit an XC70 once you get it a little higher off the ground without touching any metal and very minor fender liner massage.
