Remember when gas hit $5/gallon and clapped out Geo Metros were selling for $6000? That was the new normal. Except it wasn't. Gas prices will come back down and people will continue to drive the biggest vehicle that can afford the monthly payment on.
I paid $1.43 for mid grade last night.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
And the Oshawa plant they closed down two years ago is now building trucks.
clshore said:All I see here is a USA-centric discussion about a Global Corporation.
How many F-150's do you think Ford sells outside the USA?
Their F Series products alone would be one of the most profitable companies in the world.
They're a North American, truck and SUV company above all else. They don't much care about other products or regions because they're less profitable.
That may be concentrating risk, but they've been making more and more efficient truck and SUV options to give buyers choices. It's not 2008 anymore. That trend will continue as hybridization and full electrification continue to spread. As the amount of electrification increases, the largest drawback of large vehicles (operating costs related to inefficiency) is decreased.
clshore said:All I see here is a USA-centric discussion about a Global Corporation.
How many F-150's do you think Ford sells outside the USA?
How many other countries did they stop selling cars in?
Ford still makes cars. Compacts, midsize, subcompacts, subsubcompacts... just not sold here. Thus the discussion.
In reply to STM317 :
Even in 1992, my autos teacher in high school remarked that Ford was a truck company that also sold cars...
Nah.
Just because gas is up doesnt mean that Ford will do bad. People who buy trucks NEED trucks (for the most part). That wont change.
And as far as Ford being a one trick pony - forget about the wildly popular Mustang?
I see both the Transit and Connect all over the place, as many businesses have moved, slightly, from the F150 etc truck to a more fuel efficient, and more spacious, cargo van
Nah, they'll be alright.
In reply to hybridmomentspass :
RE the Mustang: in 2021, they sold 52k Mustangs while they averaged 60,500 FSeries trucks every month.
The Mustang is huge for Ford's brand. But at this point it's not huge for their bottom line.
NOHOME said:So Ford being pretty much a one-trick-pony company
Back to the original post, what makes you think this? They've sold 2 to 2.5 million vehicles a year for the last 2 decades. Roughly a third have been F series trucks. They offer almost 20 models currently, not counting hybrid or bev versions of same.
I wish they still made cars, and it might bite them some, but they can shift if the market shifts that massively to make trucks unprofitable.
In reply to hybridmomentspass :
Price of gas is up? Isn't that time to get a EV?
Fords profitability has been on a slow decline for about 5 years with 2 years having a massive dip but ended up recovering last year to the normal downward trend.
That's not a promising trend when they are obviously building cars people want. I believe it's their credit arm keeping everything afloat. It's been awhile since I looked into them but that was the thought last time I looked.
A while back they where trying to cut costs and decided to do a big chunk of it in materials.
It appears as though they have some problems keeping them from being as profitable as you'd expect them to be given the success and demand of their vehicles.
If gas keeps going up I think their plan to kill all the cars besides the mustangs will put them in a bad situation. The last time it happened everyone was focusing on trucks and SUVs, and the big 3 where not in a good place with their cars, I see the same thing happening but this time Ford may not have any cars. Yes gas has a inelastic demand, and people will still buy gas (although more easily have changed that some) but they doesn't mean they'll still buy gas guzzlers. I remember when trucks and big SUV values plummeted and no one wanted them.
I'm not saying ford is worse then the other two, but I don't think they are positioned well, for what appears to be coming.
I have Ford stock because they reinstated the dividend, their current lineup is very popular, and I hope they figure out their management/organizational problems and raise their profitability.
I'm holding GM stock because I expect it to grow more, especially if they decide to bring back the dividend. I was disappointed in the silverado EV and think Ford has them beat there.
I'm keeping an eye on both of these because if gas goes up more or we have a large market turndown they will both be revisited. Standard " This is not Finacial advice"
In reply to Opti :
Ford still makes cars though. If they had to, they could probably crash-course recertify them, or certify in some cases, in a short period of time. Which is probably their contingency plan to begin with. I do not know how much DOT/EPA and ECE overlap but it is not like a few decades ago where Euro specs were lower to nonexistent.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Yes but rushing a car built for another market through certification as a stop gap, doesn't put them in a "good position
While true, was not part of their scheme to have "world cars"? Everyone gets the same Focus, Fiesta, and such. Yes the US only gets the biggest engines, but the other Euro makes do that too. We never got 1.3l Golfs or 518is or 280SECs.
Heck, Ford was going to import the Sierra XR4i but couldn't get the (leaded fuel, non catalyst) V6 to pass US specs and still be worth the effort, so they shipped 2.3 turbo engines from Ohio to Cologne instead. Things are a bit different now regulation-wise. But they made those cars with CVH engines! And the 1.9l CVH was a US only thing, nobody else had one that big...
Ford is axing the Eco Sport so their base vehicle will be either a base hybrid Maverick or base Escape. An alternate angle for trucks is taller people. I work with somebody who is in the 6'8 neighborhood and a full size truck is one of the few vehicles he fits comfortably in.
The Eco Sport is, frankly, a dumb vehicle. I can see why it sold poorly. It's one of those cars I see on the road and think, "Wow, haven't seen one of those in forever."
Some of it might be a public perception issue. These days, "forward thinking" is to push EVs. Bringing over foreign market cars as a stop-gap would could be seen as "old thinking."
It's not that I don't agree that seeing small cars again would be nice, I also recognize I represent a declining market.
In reply to ddavidv :
Yet I see Trax and Encores everywhere.
I think the Eco's biggest problem was it's clown car looks.
In reply to llysgennad :
Because other than the trucks, I can't really tell you what Ford does that makes a profit. Truckismo is an image that Ford cultivates at least in NA. Ford seems to have successfully convinced the NA public that everybody NEEDS a truck where I personally think that the last thing most people need is a truck. This led me to the thought that if something came long that made if difficult for people to buy and operate a truck Ford of all companies would be in a vulnerable position.
Interesting side-note that comes out of this thread is the general feeling that the NA economy if firing strong on all cylinders and that there should be no headwinds to truck sales in general. Since perception tends to be reality, it is comforting to see.
ddavidv said:The Eco Sport is, frankly, a dumb vehicle. I can see why it sold poorly. It's one of those cars I see on the road and think, "Wow, haven't seen one of those in forever."
Ugh. I had one as a rental since it was the only AWD left at the Hertz counter. It was horrid. No power. No Economy. No visibility. Odd controls. Just a bad experience.
The EcoSport is/was a third world offering. It both looked like it and felt like it. The US retailed cars are assembled in India and imported into the US.
Nobody has mentioned fleet sales either, so I'll also throw out their approx 90% police fleet share, and by far the most successful vans Transit/Econoline (and cutaway/stripped chassis models) on top of their normal trucks. None of the local dealers can keep anything on the lots, and the new realeases (Explorer, Mach-E, Bronco, Bronco Sport, Maverick) are selling like hotcakes. I'm not worried.
People seem to thing that it's a foregone conclusion that the economy is in trouble and that there's a big crash coming. Meanwhile just about every indicator of economic health is showing that we have the strongest economy since Reagan, except for inflation of course- which is easily explained by the fact that we've had historically low interest rates and an oversupply of cash for nearly 20 years now. I think this is a cable news phenomenon- if there's no fear to sell, they don't have a product.
Oh yeah- Ford is gonna be just fine.
Do I need a truck? No. Do I want one? Yes.
A truck helps make my job easier. We have a box truck and 2 pickups. All three see E36 M3 maintenance and due to employee corporate "streamlining" we don't have a driver so take a truck and deliver it yourself in a nasty truck.
Another thing is I'm tall and my wife calls me "Hoss" so I find a truck to be comfortable to get in and out 10x a day.
This better not prevent the GT3 effort
NOHOME said:In reply to llysgennad :
Because other than the trucks, I can't really tell you what Ford does that makes a profit. Truckismo is an image that Ford cultivates at least in NA. Ford seems to have successfully convinced the NA public that everybody NEEDS a truck where I personally think that the last thing most people need is a truck. This led me to the thought that if something came long that made if difficult for people to buy and operate a truck Ford of all companies would be in a vulnerable position.
Interesting side-note that comes out of this thread is the general feeling that the NA economy if firing strong on all cylinders and that there should be no headwinds to truck sales in general. Since perception tends to be reality, it is comforting to see.
Trucks and SUV's and Mustangs. Oh and police cars, state cars,
Most people don't need trucks? Haul boats, campers, used by tradesmen, like carpenters plumbers, electricians, moving stuff around. Like appliances, furniture, stuff on the farm, race cars, sled dog teams. Snow mobles . Camping, fishing, hunting, Ranching, real estate agents assistants, ( put up the for sale signs)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:Some of it might be a public perception issue. These days, "forward thinking" is to push EVs. Bringing over foreign market cars as a stop-gap would could be seen as "old thinking."
It's not that I don't agree that seeing small cars again would be nice, I also recognize I represent a declining market.
EV's are inevitable. There are 5 times the number of moving parts in a ICE as an EV.
Electricity is cheaper because the sun shines and the wind blows everywhere. Unlike oil that has to be pulled out of some pretty awful places at the far end of the world.
I like pistons, camshafts, and carbs. But I also like steam engines. Both of which are obsolete.
I like tat Tesla has a leap on the rest of the world just like Henry Ford did in the 1920's.
No it won't last forever. but maybe long enough to get Musk to Mars.
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