Is the Future Over 5 Tons?

I'm not sure safety is a a valid excuse for all this weight. 

Compare this to Japan, where everyone drives "unsafe" Kei cars that absolutely would not pass US crash standards.

Japan also has very few EVs. The carbon improvement of going from a regular, non-hybrid Suzuki Alto - rated at 74.3 mpg with the "big block" 1.0L engine - to an EV is negative in most cases, and negligible in the exceptions. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki/alto Trucks as well are getting bigger and bigger, but in my experience a four cylinder, 3k poundish Kia Bongo is more useful for almost all truck things than an F150, and it costs 20% as much. 

The high tech future is, from my point of view, of dubious value when simple and small seems to improve almost everything for 30% of the cost. 

Yep, really longing for a return of light cars. Ever since the Mazda 2 and Fit was discontinued, I've been getting more and more worried.

I hope there is eventually a course correction.

In reply to DaewooOfDeath :

I'd like to see that data normalized by distance traveled.

US deaths are higher but miles traveled and average speeds are also probably significantly higher than most of those other countries.

I too am bummed about the average weight of vehicles but we only have ourselves (collectively) to blame.  Manufacturers can absolutely make vehicles as light as they used to be (see ND Miata), but the market for them is gone. 

Heavier vehicles will almost certainly accelerate road wear also.

I see no reason to expect heavier vehicles would reduce traffic deaths, if everyone is driving them.  If only you are, certainly.  Otherwise, should be break even.  Larger vehicles, with more crush area, yes.  Just heavier, no.

If I recall correctly, the 2wd 1/2 ton square bodies I owned in the past weighed under 4,000lbs with v-8s and manual transmissions. The 1980 was a RCLB and the 1983 was a RCSB step side. 

The 98 Ram RCSB 2wd is 4600lbs. 

Suprisingly, the 21 Sportage awd is about 3500lbs

With the trucks, if you look underneath a new truck at the frame and running gear you can see where a significant portion of the weight comes from compared to older stuff. 

In my experience a four cylinder, 3k poundish Kia Bongo is more useful for almost all truck things than an F150, and it costs 20% as much. 

The high tech future is, from my point of view, of dubious value when simple and small seems to improve almost everything for 30% of the cost. 

Thank you for this. Knew of the Mazda Bongo of the 80's, but had no idea these existed.

You also hear how, between the weight and instant acceleration, Rivians and Cybertrucks (And I presume Hummers and Silverado EVS, once they become common enough) are chewing through tires every 6000 miles. One of the whole boasted advantages of EVs is "less maintenance costs" but having to replace $500+ea (The Silverado EV uses LT275/50R24s!) every 6000 miles kind of defeats that. I'd rather do a $50 oil change every 6000 miles than $2000+ in tires at the same interval.

And tires shredding that quickly contributes to microplastics in the environment is what I recently learned. 

TravisTheHuman said:

In reply to DaewooOfDeath :

I'd like to see that data normalized by distance traveled.

US deaths are higher but miles traveled and average speeds are also probably significantly higher than most of those other countries.

I too am bummed about the average weight of vehicles but we only have ourselves (collectively) to blame.  Manufacturers can absolutely make vehicles as light as they used to be (see ND Miata), but the market for them is gone. 

Canada and the US should be relatively similar in terms of distance traveled and the speeds are probably slightly higher on average. I think the reason there's a big gap between those two is the public attitude towards impaired driving. It's markedly different in my experience.

Also, well done France on your improvement.

Keith Tanner said:

Canada and the US should be relatively similar in terms of distance traveled and the speeds are probably slightly higher on average. I think the reason there's a big gap between those two is the public attitude towards impaired driving. It's markedly different in my experience.

Oof yeah.  Quick and dirty googling.

2022 US:  13,524 killed in impaired driving crashes.  (.004% of population)

2021 Canada:  391  (.001% of population)

Also are we also going to need to make the barriers bigger?

Rivian crash test that made the rounds earlier this year

No Time said:

If I recall correctly, the 2wd 1/2 ton square bodies I owned in the past weighed under 4,000lbs with v-8s and manual transmissions. The 1980 was a RCLB and the 1983 was a RCSB step side. 

The 98 Ram RCSB 2wd is 4600lbs. 

Suprisingly, the 21 Sportage awd is about 3500lbs

With the trucks, if you look underneath a new truck at the frame and running gear you can see where a significant portion of the weight comes from compared to older stuff. 

I have a single data point: 1974 Chevy C10 4X2 long bed, 350, 3 speed manual, no options, like none: 4100 lbs with half tank of fuel.  

A 401 CJ said:

No Time said:

If I recall correctly, the 2wd 1/2 ton square bodies I owned in the past weighed under 4,000lbs with v-8s and manual transmissions. The 1980 was a RCLB and the 1983 was a RCSB step side. 

The 98 Ram RCSB 2wd is 4600lbs. 

Suprisingly, the 21 Sportage awd is about 3500lbs

With the trucks, if you look underneath a new truck at the frame and running gear you can see where a significant portion of the weight comes from compared to older stuff. 

I have a single data point: 1974 Chevy C10 4X2 long bed, 350, 3 speed manual, no options, like none: 4100 lbs with half tank of fuel.  

This is for the 1977, but I suspect the numbers are similar to a 1974. Chevy Trailering Guide

Compare it with this: 2023 Ford Maverick towing guide

These docs says a 350 C10 can tow up to 4000 lbs depending on rear axle ratio. The Ford Maverick can also tow up to 4000 lbs. And it weighs 3731 lbs wet.

The reason trucks are getting heavier is because people expect them to do more.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I will say having a 2800lb boat plus gear and trailer behind the RCSB C10 was definitely noticeable, a specially on secondary roads with some curves. You would feel the boat pushing in the corners

One of the real problems is that efficiency and safety regulations are relaxed and easy to meet for large and wasteful vehicles in the US. On the other hand, small and efficient vehicles have extremely high efficiency and safety standards that make them basically impossible to sell for a profit. 

Basically, the regulations are exactly backwards. 

j_tso said:

we're gonna be spending a lot more on fixing roads

What?  They fix the roads where you are?  They don't here from what I can tell.  In fact, the city of Cincinnati is supposed to repave a certain number of miles annually, they have not hit that number.