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92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
8/2/11 11:44 a.m.

^What he said.

I'll likely end up with a KLG4 down the road if/when i need more power. Much better valvetrain.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc New Reader
8/2/11 12:00 p.m.

I call the yards weekly for one. All they seem to find are 4bangers. As soon as I find one I'll pull the crank and send it out to Paeco to be stroked.

Vigo
Vigo Dork
8/2/11 12:10 p.m.

that video link is funny. I facepalm every time i see someone doing and 'intarweb build' where they say something is 'built' because 'brand X part' and 'brand Y cams' and for the love of god *0000.040 OVERBORE!!! ZOMG THE POWER!!!! Everything built to the TOP DOLLAR with the NAMES THAT SOUND BEST ON THE INTARWEB!!

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
8/2/11 12:19 p.m.

^Agreed for the most part. I just linked it because that motor sounds unholy.

ScottRA21
ScottRA21 Reader
8/2/11 2:37 p.m.

Light weight, small, compact, V6, sounds better than a 4 banger...

I want the distant, thrice removed cousin though...

H27A from suzuki...already rwd :P

ptrix
ptrix None
11/2/19 11:06 a.m.

K-series motors.  Designed for the 90’s era when sports cars were all the rage (Mazda had 5 2-door coupe models then).

The supposed hype around K-series motors is more fandom than tech.  BUT, it is undeniable that these motors are underrated.  You can thank the popularity of the B-series motor in Hondas for overshadowing their potential.  

The sport compact scene leading into the 2000’s glorified performance.  Mazda K-series cars were already equipped with efficient intake and exhaust systems, so bolt-on mods provided lackluster results and turned many a vehicle owner to other brands for the sake of numbers.

Due to this, the money was never put into developing  cams, intake manifolds, etc.

The KL08 (130hp) is almost ignored.  An urban legend states that due to their pistons being the size of a motorcycle’s, they could be built to rev up to 10K rpm.... that’d be a sound...

One thing I believe is that Mazda understood practicality trumps performance, in the long run, and built the motors to run smoothly and have more low-mid range torque.

A BIG fact of note is the motors are non-interference in design, offering peace of mind for all of us nut jobs out pushing the envelope at 2am with our limited budgets.

A KLDE (170hp) swapped into an MX3 will give an H22 Prelude a run for its money without needing valve adjustments every 20K (?) (not a Honda guy, obviously).  I own one with a JDM KLDE (no egr) and it gains speed going uphill in 5th gear.

The KLZE (200hp) is a high-compression version of the DE with different valves, cams, and intake.  It’s a bit more tempermental but is the result of the stiff competition in Japan to garner a share of the market.

The KLG4 is secluded to being offered in 98+ 626’s (USDM..unsure of others).  It offers a lightweight rotating assembly due to a lack of a counterweight on the crankshaft..possibly other factors.  It’s intake manifold is the most efficient of the bunch, but can only be swapped onto the KLDE due to the KLZE’S ports being a different shape.

The MX3 transmission has a different final drive; about 500 rpms higher in each gear.

SO, from a Mazda fanatic’s point of view, the K series is a solid, rev happy, smooth motor.  I own 3 MX6’s, 2 MX3’s.. Working on a KLZE MX3 AND a KLDE/KLG4 MX6 turbo.   Happy motoring.

BoostedBrandon
BoostedBrandon SuperDork
11/2/19 12:55 p.m.

Zombie Thread!

I miss Ben.

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports Reader
11/3/19 12:35 p.m.

I have a KLDE in my MX3 racecar.  Can you retard the cam timing to increase high rpm power?   I looked into it a bit, didn't find anyone who done it.

The  intake and exhaust cams are connected by gears, and driven by one timing belt pulley.  

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
11/3/19 5:47 p.m.
BoostedBrandon said:

I miss Ben.

Same. The Indy guys need to blindfold him, stuff him in the trunk of the Jag, and bring him to the Challenge next year. 

slowbird
slowbird Dork
11/3/19 7:18 p.m.

I've been researching superchargers for KL motors. It seems that some folks take an M62 or equivalent and mount it over on the driver's side of the engine compartment with a long metal shaft over to the main drive belt, so that it fits under the hood.

I've decided my 2020 challenge goals do not require keeping the hood installed, so I could simplify the install and just kinda hang it above the engine somewhere.

wspohn
wspohn Dork
11/4/19 10:58 a.m.

Old thread!

Prior to around a dozen years ago, when the modern generation of direct injection high boost small four cylinder engines appeared, these small V6 engines were a pretty good option.

Even today when a 2.0 four cylinder can be made to produce 300 bhp in stock form, the K series have a place simply on the basis of the excellent sound they put out! Plus in an in line configuration, they look so cute.

Listen to this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfS3GHT2bFA

This swap article into a   Porsche 944  is worth a read:  https://www.hoonigan.com/blogs/daily-transmission/mazda-v6-turbo-powered-porsche-944

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
11/4/19 11:43 a.m.

This makes me miss my old Ford Probe!  Maybe one day I'll luck out and be able to build one for a challenge car :-)

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports Reader
11/4/19 12:02 p.m.

The Millenia S has a supercharger down in the valley of the V6.  While it is designed for efficiency and not power, you could modify it.

I saw one at the picknpull, but another guy beat me to it, removing it just as I showed up with my tools.    They have turbo kits for sale on ebay.

Vigo
Vigo MegaDork
11/4/19 8:34 p.m.

From what i remember of looking into it, the problem with the miller cycle supercharger is that it's sized for what it makes, which is only a little over 200hp.  It wasn't designed to add performance to a 200hp engine, it was designed to take an engine that had been detuned to probably 130hp and bring it back up to acceptable. 

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports Reader
11/4/19 8:53 p.m.

It was designed to boost, same as the M62, if you start with more air, it is adding even more, whereas in the S, it started with less.

They key really is it is packaged much better for the KL, can hardly tell it is there, and it is a more efficient design.

 

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE HalfDork
11/5/19 11:15 a.m.

They are also SUPER long superchargers. Darn near as long as some 4-cylinders- they were really made for that V6.

I think there are some kits to replace the wheel that drives the screws. Good news is tho, they are made to be lubricated with engine oil, not special supercharger oils.

Vigo
Vigo MegaDork
11/5/19 1:31 p.m.

It was designed to boost, same as the M62, if you start with more air, it is adding even more, 

That's not exactly true. Positive displacement superchargers have rpm limits, so your max potential is basically displacement x rpm and fudge that amount of airflow into horsepower.  M62s have fairly low limits too and i'm pretty sure the mazda unit is of a lower displacement than that.  Now if you want to feed it pressurized air that's something else but I might have already worn out my welcome of sidetracking actual discussions into whimsical tales of compound turbocharging so... nevermind.  Anywho, if you do the math and figure out how much air that thing can move without self-destructing, i'd be interested to know. 

ptrix
ptrix New Reader
11/10/19 12:12 p.m.
Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
11/10/19 2:16 p.m.
Vigo said:

It was designed to boost, same as the M62, if you start with more air, it is adding even more, 

That's not exactly true. Positive displacement superchargers have rpm limits, so your max potential is basically displacement x rpm and fudge that amount of airflow into horsepower.  M62s have fairly low limits too and i'm pretty sure the mazda unit is of a lower displacement than that.  Now if you want to feed it pressurized air that's something else but I might have already worn out my welcome of sidetracking actual discussions into whimsical tales of compound turbocharging so... nevermind.  Anywho, if you do the math and figure out how much air that thing can move without self-destructing, i'd be interested to know. 

It wasn't even really meant to built significant boost, it was more like a check valve against the Atkinson(?) cycle engine.  The intake valves closed extremely late for Akinson-cycle reasons, and the supercharger was just there to push the air back in to the cylinders when you needed to actually go.

 

I'm curious what an S engine would do with normal camshafts in it, if the supercharger would even build any boost at all.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
5/4/20 9:19 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett :

If he still has boost bits, for $1000 cost we can get him the makings for a rustfree BG 323 with a KLDE swap. $350 of which would be easily recouped. (And $500+recoup in real money)

shelbyz
shelbyz Reader
5/5/20 7:44 p.m.

It's that sound and smoothness.

As an "automotively" ignorant high school junior with an (uncool at the time Automatic) AWD DSM for his first car, I lived my life a quarter mile (time listed in magazines or on forums) at a time and scoffed at anything that wasn't superior to my car (which actually spent most of my high school driving years sitting at home broken while I drove my Dad's Chrysler New Yorker or various other cars, before driving a 2nd less broken DSM) in a straight line. This included the Probe, where I openly made fun of a classmates 5-speed white '97 GTS -Which was probably actually faster than my stock Automatic turbo DSM, and is a car that I would absolutely salivate over if I saw it in the wild today...

In the summer, a co-worker friend was looking for a car and asked if I'd help him check out and test drive one he found since it was a stick and he was still new to it. The car was a 93-95 Probe GT that had at least an exhaust. Not expecting to be thrilled, I got in and fired it up. As we putzed away from the owners house, I was taken back by how great it sounded even without getting on it. When we were far enough away, I gave it the business and was absolutely floored with how silky it was as it climbed to 7k RPMs and made that sweet music. It wasn't real quick or fast, but just a whole lot of fun to row the gears and wind up.

I became fascinated. Went home and read about oddball Mazdas and Mazda powered Fords on the internet. "You can put a turbo motor in the Festiva?" "They made a 1.8L V6?" I shared my new knowledge with anyone who would listen. Tried to talk another co-worker into a local Mercurcy Capri XR2. Then helped convince a friend from school to actually buy an intriguing, yet clapped out 1989 Probe GT sitting for sale less than a mile from my house.

That Probe lasted about 4 months but it cemented a lifelong brotherhood between my buddy and I, of which one of the many tenets is a mutual love of and inability to NOT hoard oddball Fazdas and other less than desirable E36 M3boxes.

That KL experience was indirectly responsible. That said, neither my buddy or I have checked a KL car off the bucket list yet.

 

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