The ones in the Flex and Explorer and SHO. What do I need to know?
The ones in the Flex and Explorer and SHO. What do I need to know?
The Internet hates them because of the water pump.
I'd be more concerned about manifold warpage, or the effects of losing the undertray that doubles as NACA-type cooling ducts.
Engin our water pump. Basically totals the car. Especially the older ones.
In reply to dean1484 :
Is that all the 3.5's, even NA, or just the EcoBoost version?
dean1484 said:Engin our water pump. Basically totals the car. Especially the older ones.
Not in the Flex or Explorer. It's done in chassis.
If a $1500 repair totals the car, then it probably shouldn't be on the road anyway.
If it IS in a chassis that calls for engine out (cars, basically), that's no different than the timing chains on High Feature V6s, which is like a 90k service interval if you follow GM's OCI, except a Ford water pump is a lot cheaper than a High Feature timing chain set.
In reply to Knurled. :
On a non related tangent, do you guys do the timing chain stuff on the GM v6 motors? I may be in need of getting that done unfortunately.
In reply to Aaron_King :
Depends on who you are calling "you guys" 
I have a new employer as of a year ago last week.
I don't see why we wouldn't do it, I do timing chains on Hondas and Ecotecs all the time here. It hasn't come up yet because different parts of the city have different client bases.
As far as the water pump...ALL 3.5/3.7L engines are known for water pump failures before 90k miles...but this is NOT a big deal...you dont even have to remove the timing cover to replace it...remove a few bolts, the belt, replace a few gaskets...it can be replaced in about 30 minutes...the RWD version anyway, no clue what the FWD/AWD version takes.
In reply to Wicked93gs :
Transverse and some pickup apps have it inside the timing cover, driven by the chain. Not a half hour procedure.
In reply to Wicked93gs :
The RWD applications actually have 2 water pumps. The external one you're describing, and the internal chain driven one everyone else is taking about.
In reply to Knurled:
My new to me 2010 SAAB 9-5 Aero has the 2.8T in it and was throwing a p0008 code randomly for about 2 weeks. I changed the oil and it has not come back in like a month so finger crossed. If it comes back I will reach out, that is something I don't want to tackle in my garage.
In reply to Aaron_King :
I don't want to say "no", but the last few times I worked on late model SAABs were complete nightmares for parts availability. I have visions of a bay tied up for a week or two when we discover X obscure part is cracked/failing. Turbocharged engines in cramped engine bays are not kind to rubber, plastic, or wiring harnesses.
The timing set is not the issue, the everything-else is the issue. At least it isn't AWD. SAAB took space utilization maximization on those to levels not seen since the 3000GT VR4.
In reply to Knurled. :
We used to have a customer that had a Caddy SRX with the Saab 2.8T. Only one I've ever seen with that engine option. I remember popping the hood and going "What the berkeley is this?"
Knurled. said:In reply to Aaron_King :
I don't want to say "no", but the last few times I worked on late model SAABs were complete nightmares for parts availability. I have visions of a bay tied up for a week or two when we discover X obscure part is cracked/failing. Turbocharged engines in cramped engine bays are not kind to rubber, plastic, or wiring harnesses.
The timing set is not the issue, the everything-else is the issue. At least it isn't AWD. SAAB took space utilization maximization on those to levels not seen since the 3000GT VR4.
Pete you optimistic little child.
I just looked up the procedure, it looks like twelve bags of not fun. And it is apparently done in chassis, too. First step is to remove the catalyst, the procedure for which may as well start with "Remove spare tire" for what has to come apart to do it...
In reply to Javelin :
I've seen two NA 3.5's in my family alone,(one Flex,one Edge) pump coolant in place of the oil, at around 150k, grenading the engine thanks to this wonderful bit of Ford engineering. Both were well maintained vehicles prior to needing new engines. I would consider replacing the waterpump on any transverse 3.5 at 100k or even sooner.
Wicked93gs said:As far as the water pump...ALL 3.5/3.7L engines are known for water pump failures before 90k miles...but this is NOT a big deal...you dont even have to remove the timing cover to replace it...remove a few bolts, the belt, replace a few gaskets...it can be replaced in about 30 minutes...the RWD version anyway, no clue what the FWD/AWD version takes.
Really? ALL of them? That's odd since we put 120k on a 2008 Taurus X with the 3.5, then sold it to my wife's cousin who has it at about 160k right now, never a hint of a problem. In addition, since I live in SE Michigan and used to work for Ford, I know literally dozens of people with Edges, Tauruses, Flexes, Exploders, F-150s, you name it, many with well over 100k, and I've literally never heard of this issue until this thread. I know that's anecdotal, but for now I'm going to chalk this up to internet lore.
Knurled. said:Knurled. said:In reply to Aaron_King :
I don't want to say "no", but the last few times I worked on late model SAABs were complete nightmares for parts availability. I have visions of a bay tied up for a week or two when we discover X obscure part is cracked/failing. Turbocharged engines in cramped engine bays are not kind to rubber, plastic, or wiring harnesses.
The timing set is not the issue, the everything-else is the issue. At least it isn't AWD. SAAB took space utilization maximization on those to levels not seen since the 3000GT VR4.
Pete you optimistic little child.
I just looked up the procedure, it looks like twelve bags of not fun. And it is apparently done in chassis, too. First step is to remove the catalyst, the procedure for which may as well start with "Remove spare tire" for what has to come apart to do it...
Last post on this I promiss. The motor is a Holden one from what I gather and the Caddie is the only other ca in the states to get it as far as I know. My car is AWD, though the guy I got it from had taken care of that system fairly well. As long as you change the fluids and filter it should be good, another victim of "lifetime" fluids. From what I have read on my car the chains are usually done engine out, they really packed that motor in there. The only parts that are getting hard to find are exterior bits and body panels, mechanically its just a streached Buick Regal.
So is it okay or not? I'd the water pump a catastrophe waiting to happen like a Porsche IMS bearing, or an overblown nothing?
Alfadriver? Didn't he design parts of this motor?
In reply to Javelin :
The bits and bytes, IIRC.
I have only seen two water pump leaks. One in an Interceptor Utility (3.7l Explorer) and one in an F150. Both were external leaks out the weep hole above the air conditioning compressor. The guy with the cop car had us fix it, the guy with the truck said it wasn't leaking bad enough and he'd probably just trade it in before the leak was noticable.
PS - The cop truck could scoot!
The AWD models also have PTU (transfer case) issues as well. The cat converter sits right next to the PTU, this cooks the oil and seals. The oil rapidly breaks down and/or leaks out. The "fix" is to change the PTU oil every 10-20kmi and say a prayer.
In reply to old_ :
Isn't that a police car issue from all the idling that they do?
Didn't hear of it happening on civilian cars/SUV's.
I'm no expert but it seems pretty widespread.
old_ said:The AWD models also have PTU (transfer case) issues as well. The cat converter sits right next to the PTU, this cooks the oil and seals. The oil rapidly breaks down and/or leaks out. The "fix" is to change the PTU oil every 10-20kmi and say a prayer.
Now that one I knew about. The other issue is that the fluid capacity of the PTU is really small, so it doesn't take long to cook it. I changed it in my SHO. It was kind of a PITA, to be honest.
In reply to old_ :
Everything with a PTU with its own oil supply has problems. Some of them only hold a quarter of a quart of oil. It doesn't take much to cook the fluid or leak all of it out.
How does one check the PTU?
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