Let's play "Guess the hot ticket for this class"

The circle track thread had me looking for local tracks, even though I don't exactly have the budget to for a circle track car and tow setup right now. And I found that the entry level class (Stock 4 cylinder A / B, with B being for noobs and A for those who have won at least three times) at Winder Barrow Speedway has taken a rather interesting set of rules to keep horsepower and budgets in check. This is a short dirt oval. Their full rulebook is here: Winder Barrow Speedway Rulebook And I thought it might be fun to see if we can guess what the best combination is likely to be, before checking out the Saturday night races and seeing what's actually doing well.

Here's the pertinent rules.

1. Four cylinders, front engine, rear wheel drive. The rules explicitly ban front wheel drive but it is unclear if all wheel drive is allowed. I suspect they'd clarify that in a real hurry if someone started winning with an AWD car, though.

2. Engines can only be pushrod or SOHC; no DOHC motors allowed. Naturally aspirated.

3. No engine swaps - must be original engine type for chassis.

4. Engines must have hydraulic lifters and may not use roller lifters or roller rocker arms. This bans a pretty large collection of engines that don't get nailed by the DOHC ban.

5. Ford and Chevy engines are banned from using aluminum cylinder heads. Toyotas are banned outright. I suspect they got sick of 22RE Celicas dominating the class.

6. Engines are allowed very limited prep. Cam swaps and adjustable cam gears are allowed provided the valve lift is under 0.455". Piston and rods are open as long as you don't exceed a 0.060" overbore. Must run stock intake and exhaust, with a few limited carb swaps allowed.

7. Minimum weight 2000 lbs for 2.0 liters and smaller, 2300 for over 2.0 liters.

So - what seems to be the most likely combo here to end up in the winner's circle? Pinto or Fox body Mustang? Nissan 240SX with the KA24E? AMC Eagle?

I'm going to read more but my first thought was Fiero.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: I'm going to read more but my first thought was Fiero.

Nope...has to be front engine

Hmmm...maybe chevy monza?

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

I forgot the first rule by the time I got to the last one

It does seem like Pinto has been the answer for this sort of thing for a long time. The "no Toyota" rule makes me think that similar vehicles could be ringers and just haven't shown up yet- anything rwd from Datsun/Nissan/Mazda should be good. Maybe a GLC or an old Datsun 1200 or something? Could you get the S12 with a legal engine?

If you wanted to get cheaty, I bet the average circle track crowd would have trouble figuring out that an old longitudinal engined Saab is FWD

Also worth considering might be a Volvo 240.

M10 powered BMWs should be a good choice. E21s and early 4 cylinder E30s. 2002s too, technically, but probably not budget friendly for something that is going to get smashed up.

4 cyl S10 or Ranger? I don't see anything specifically banning trucks. The S10 could probably use some dirt car front suspension pieces pretty easily since they're all based on old GM stuff.

Plymouth Arrow?

Burrito wrote: M10 powered BMWs should be a good choice. E21s and early 4 cylinder E30s. 2002s too, technically, but probably not budget friendly for something that is going to get smashed up.

I've seen some of these cars in rural areas, and yes - they get pretty banged up. But there is doesn't seem to be any incentive to make the cars look all that good. Get the sheet-metal off the tires... fix anything that's broke.. get back on track.

That said, most of the ones I've seen a generic FWD cars. Old 80's and 90's Cavaliers and Escorts.

Seems stupid to ban FWD cars. It's not like there is a plethora of RWD econoboxes still around...

Burrito wrote: M10 powered BMWs should be a good choice. E21s and early 4 cylinder E30s. 2002s too, technically, but probably not budget friendly for something that is going to get smashed up.

BMW M10s get tripped up by the "no solid lifters" rule - I checked. Unless there's a hydraulic lifter variant out there somewhere.

As for Nissans, I think the S12 200SX would be legal; an early S13 would definitely be allowed in, and easier to get parts for. But the S12 would get a 300 lb weight break over the S13.

Whether trucks are legal or not is an interesting question; I didn't see any ban on them in the rulebook. Same goes for Jeep Cherokees and other small SUVs.

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

Ooooh, what about a 2wd Geo Tracker? Or for bonus points, imagine the outrage if you could win with a Suzuki X90.

Porsche 944/924?

MadScientistMatt wrote:

Burrito wrote: M10 powered BMWs should be a good choice. E21s and early 4 cylinder E30s. 2002s too, technically, but probably not budget friendly for something that is going to get smashed up.

BMW M10s get tripped up by the "no solid lifters" rule - I checked. Unless there's a hydraulic lifter variant out there somewhere. As for Nissans, I think the S12 200SX would be legal; an early S13 would definitely be allowed in, and easier to get parts for. But the S12 would get a 300 lb weight break over the S13. Whether trucks are legal or not is an interesting question; I didn't see any ban on them in the rulebook. Same goes for Jeep Cherokees and other small SUVs.

Ah. Yes, so they do. It's still early here on the west coast...

That is a really small group of possible vehicles. Like Ian F said, these classes are usually intended for the cars that are cheap, plentiful, and disposable.

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

I think the better plan is to determine what the hot cars are, then setup a side business hauling more of them in from other parts of the country where they're cheaper.

I would have said Volvo 240 easy button, but the SOHC Redblock is solid lifter.

Why is that a rule? Newer, higher performance engines tend to be hydro bucket, and stuff with solid lifters is generally older.

In reply to mck1117:

A B20 is a solid lifter engine as well.

My guess the rule is in place as "PC" way to prevent most "furrin" cars from being eligible.

A lot of those entry level classes don't care and don't protest until you win quite a few times. In a row. Just hang back and win once in awhile, all the while knowing you could checker flag every race. They get pissy in the big leagues.

Ian F wrote: In reply to mck1117: A B20 is a solid lifter engine as well. My guess the rule is in place as "PC" way to prevent most "furrin" cars from being eligible.

This track does appear to have some level of political correctness; they have a ban on fistfights and threatening other drivers with guns or knives. But I have no doubt that they if they wanted to say they only wanted American cars in that series, they'd come out and say it.

What does get through the rule are early production versions of the Iron Duke, Ford 2.3, probably the Chevette motor as well. The Ford and Iron Duke eventually gained enough technology to get banned. Some of your Japanese truck / sedan engines make it through too, but not much European. Usually roller rockers bans anything too new and the solid lifter ban gets a lot of older engines intended for high performance - or in a chassis that might be a threat (they probably didn't want MGBs on the track against Mustangs!). So it could be a rule along the lines of "You can bring foreign cars as long as they're not too expensive or sporty."

Wait... so they've banned the Iron Duke and Ford 2.3? What the hell is left to race?

Now you have to go just so we can find out what this unicorn car actually is.

Ian F wrote: Wait... so they've banned the Iron Duke and Ford 2.3? What the hell is left to race?

More specifically, they banned the 1985 and later Iron Duke and the 1989 and later dual plug 2.3; earlier ones are fine. Interestingly, the Nissan KA24E and certain variants on the Porsche 924 and 944 both make it through the rules.

If I visit the track and find the Stock 4 Cylinder A class has turned into Spec 944, I'll be sure to post pictures and video.

No idea if it would be legal, but IIRC it is a 4cy with a manual and RWD.

Donebrokeit wrote: Plymouth Arrow?

That's probably the best option if the rules would allow it, but I t's a Pinto/Mustang class. Bad rule set, but pretty typical.

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

924/44 you say. Hmm. I think a lot of people would be very upset if you showed up in a Porsche and whooped them. Let's try it.

2.5 powered Commanche?

Lugnut wrote: Porsche 944/924?

As long as its the 2.5L, SOHC yes. The 2.0L in the 924 uses solid lifters and the DOHC variants of the 944/968 obviously fail.

They are great chassis though with lots of Super Beetle rear suspension and VW Rabbit front suspension mods aren't hard to pull off.

You would want to pay attention to oil control though given the engines lean to the passenger side, which isn't good for left turn only cars.