lightest route to 400HP

Hmm, 2ZZ + turbo + adapter + AZ6 might win. How much does the adapter and AZ6 weigh?

Also, where's the 400HP 2ZZ builds?

Then again, how much does an aluminum block 5.0 weigh?

(The real winner might be the Titanium rotary in the other thread, yowza!!! )

Javelin wrote: Then again, how much does an aluminum block 5.0 weigh?

That may be tricky, since Ford never cast an aluminum 8.2" deck block to my knowledge.

So, we'd be looking at aftermarket offerings, and because the aftermarket for that sort of thing is geared towards people who are interested in making POWER, there's going to be a lot of beef-metal. Aluminum is a lot lighter than iron by volume, but you need to use more of it just to get to iron's strength, and then if you want MORE strength, you may end up at a wash for weight. On the other hand, the flip side is that you now have a same-weight block that won't split in half before it sees 500hp.

The aftermarket iron 8.2 deck blocks tend to be a LOT heavier, to the point where it makes more sense to just start with a 351W if you're on a budget, since those blocks aren't nearly as weak. I have no idea who even makes an aluminum 8.2 deck block.

(I had to move a bare aluminum SBC block once - it was HEAVY!!!! But it was also a solid block for an alcohol drag engine, no water jackets. Block strength is a priority at ~1800hp)

Can we please get back to the F2T and how awesome it is?

Javelin wrote: Hmm, 2ZZ + turbo + adapter + AZ6 might win. How much does the adapter and AZ6 weigh? Also, where's the 400HP 2ZZ builds? Then again, how much does an aluminum block 5.0 weigh? (The real winner might be the Titanium rotary in the other thread, yowza!!! )

Look for a build by a dude named "Smaay." I already linked video of that one putting down 402whp. The details of what was done to the motor is on the video description.

MG Bryan wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm still liking the 2zz depending on if there's an easy RWD trans to bolt to it.

I'm reaching here, but there is an adapter plate that facilitates using the E153 out of an MR2 Turbo in an Elise/Exige. The MR2 is using a 3S-GTE. The 3S-GE came in the Altezza in a longitudinal configuration. Assuming that 3S-GTEs and 3S-GEs share a bellhousing pattern, there seems to be a somewhat contrived possibility of using a 2ZZ bolted to an AZ6. I might just be really tired though.

I'm guessing that or what was in the AE86s would be the easiest solution. The ZZ motors are considered a continuation of the "A" motors. They share many mounting similarities.

pres589 wrote: Can we please get back to the F2T and how awesome it is?

It IS awesome. Awesomely heavy. From what i'm finding, a fully dressed F2T weighs almost 500lbs. I'm betting mine is quite a bit lighter at this point, but it's certainly a lump. I didn't mention that motor as a viable alternative for a reason.

That said... someone earlier mentioned torque. The torque you'd get out of this thing at 400whp would be big block Chevy levels, and it WOULD be lighter than a BBC.

The internets are telling me a VQ35DE weighs just over 300lbs N/A. You could probably crack 400 crank HP w/o boost. You definitely can on a VQ37. This seems like an absurdly light option.

If you add the boosts, you can get into super ridiculous power levels.

ProDarwin wrote: The internets are telling me a VQ35DE weighs just over 300lbs N/A. You could probably crack 400 crank HP w/o boost. You definitely can on a VQ37. This seems like an absurdly light option. If you add the boosts, you can get into super ridiculous power levels.

Ooooh, a new contender appears! Interesting...

(Side note, a VQ35 or 37 swap in a Z32 could make an SM2 legal car down in the 2700lb range with ~350+hp and size infinity tires)

That weight is without all accessories. I would expect about 375-400lbs for a fully dressed VQ. Add weight for turbo unless you want to go the n/a route, which will get expensive for 400whp.

http://www.engineswaptech.com/forums/thread/797.aspx

Interesting to note that the LSx was weighed WAY heavier by that guy than any numbers that have been quoted in this thread. And that's without accessories. We can put the LSx to bed, it's not the answer in this thread at all.

Damn. At 450Lbs for the aluminum LSx, a Ford 302 is definitely lighter!

Javelin wrote: Damn. At 450Lbs for the aluminum LSx, a Ford 302 is *definitely* lighter!

I need you to explain exactly which 302 you're talking about again... none of the weights i'm seeing for that motor come even close to what you're saying it weighs, so i'm curious now.

Well.. i should clarify that "not even close" means well into the 400s. I'm just not seeing 385 anywhere... i'm seeing 425+ for the aluminum headed variants. 450+ for the iron head variants. I found an old link that quoted weight for an aluminum head 302 (NOT even a complete motor) from Factory Five, Factory Five saying the incomplete aluminum head motor weighed 412lbs.

Does anyone know what the Ford Cyclone engine series weigh? I know the Duratec 37 in the newer mustang v6's produce 305 hp out of the box, just add a small turbo and 400 should be attainable right?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Javelin wrote: Damn. At 450Lbs for the aluminum LSx, a Ford 302 is *definitely* lighter!

I need you to explain exactly which 302 you're talking about again... none of the weights i'm seeing for that motor come even close to what you're saying it weighs, so i'm curious now. Well.. i should clarify that "not even close" means well into the 400s. I'm just not seeing 385 anywhere... i'm seeing 425+ for the aluminum headed variants. 450+ for the iron head variants. I found an old link that quoted weight for an aluminum head 302 (NOT even a complete motor) from Factory Five, Factory Five saying the incomplete aluminum head motor weighed 412lbs.

you'll probably be waiting for a long time. He's searching google for "lightest 302 ford" as we speak.

A hundred thirty and change of these will only be 75 lbs and will be over 400 hp. It'll sound wicked, too.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMHR6&P=V

tuna55 wrote: A hundred thirty and change of these will only be 75 lbs and will be over 400 hp. It'll sound wicked, too. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMHR6&P=V

You win the thread!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote: A hundred thirty and change of these will only be 75 lbs and will be over 400 hp. It'll sound wicked, too. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMHR6&P=V

You win the thread!

Hurray!

I think the 3.3 is 3.3cc and not 3.3hp. I think it's more like 1hp on a dyno and so you would need 400 of them. Which would sound even more awesome.

How much will an all-aluminum 302 Ford weigh?

Those things are TINY and I would love to put one in the nose of a Focus driving the front wheels. I'd need to build my own oil pan, of course...

In reply to tuna55:

/thread.

Hmm...

My VM ICC engine makes 40 hp and weighs 60 lbs. The cylinder, piston, crank, and head weigh maybe 10 lbs.

So maybe you need a 1250cc, two-stroke V10?

dculberson wrote: I think the 3.3 is 3.3cc and not 3.3hp. I think it's more like 1hp on a dyno and so you would need 400 of them. Which would sound even more awesome.

I know it's CC, but those engines are typically around 3 hp. Others like it are, but have no weight listed... I looked, trust me. Just build a gearbox and a way to start it and try it!

I love theoretical threads, which is why I simply put the engine in my car and used it. I had all sorts of people saying theoretically I added wieght to the nose of my car, but I weighed my car. My car with the cast iron V8 (with aluminum carbed intake) weighed less than the same exact car with a turbo rotary. No, I never weighed the engine itself, but it's logical, that in the real world, the Ford V8 weighed the same or less than the ready to run turbo rotary as the front of the car was the only place where I could have lost weight (oh, and I had an Autopower 6 point roll cage in the car, so the car itself was heavier than it woudl have been in stock form just from that, and yet it STILL weighed less than a stock TII overall. Think about what that meant in the real world for the weight of the engine). AND, the trans I used was an AOD automatic, which weighed in about 150 lbs...

Simply put, this car:

weighed less than this car:

Even though mine had a V8 and a roll cage and a full, stock interior.

Found this: http://www.35pickup.com/mulligan/weight.txt

And immediately pointed out the one engine we all forgot about...

it's a light engine, the Buick/Rover. I have one here to go into an MGB. But it's harder and more expensive to get 400 driveable HP from it than some of the other choices. 250, maybe 300 is easy enough.