Maximum bob opens mouth.. Hilarity ensues

I'm thinking of buy a new Toyota about a year AFTER all the recall B.S. is done.

Think about it. Thanks to being concerned about their image, those are probably going to be some of the best assembled cars they've ever put together.

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote: I'm thinking of buy a new Toyota about a year AFTER all the recall B.S. is done. Think about it. Thanks to being concerned about their image, those are probably going to be some of the best assembled cars they've ever put together. Shawn

Not to mention you'll be able the hammer them down on price.

alfadriver wrote: preception vs. reality

perception is reality.

We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs, especially about products and service.

For reference.. http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1898706

Most of the folks there say.. (paraphrased)

"I've owned x number of toyotas, they are awesome, I will buy another toyota cause they are awsome"

Sorry people, but it looks like toyota was hurt, but their recovery was much more classy than anything GM has done.

Feedyurhed wrote: You know we are living in the bizarro world when GM blames Toyota for it's quality control issues.

Now THAT is "say what" worthy!

ignorant wrote:

alfadriver wrote: preception vs. reality

perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs, especially about products and service.

No, it's not.

preception- Toytoa = low cost manufacturer, reality- both GM and Ford are a lots lower preception- Toyota- creative engineering, reality- Toytoa generally chooses the most expensive solution when careful engnieering is better- example- 12 injector direct injection V6 preception- Toyota- great reliabilty- reality- oil sludging, frame rust, throttle, etc etc...

Eric

ignorant wrote: perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs

If this were true there would be a smoking hot porn star with awesome cooking skills whos turn-ons include watching a middle aged guy install the wrong engine in a car. She would be sitting on a chair made of $1000 bills. Holding a pitcher of cold beer.

ignorant wrote: Sorry people, but it looks like toyota was hurt, but their recovery was much more classy than anything GM has done.

What recovery? Sales in the US are down 10%, there';s still hourly news/blog articles bringing them down, there's still a Senate hearing, they've "fixed" 1 mil of the 8 to 10 mil cars, there's still a $1 mil bounty on proving the real problem, and now they have to poor an "unlimited" budget into a 3rd party NA quality unit. And "classy", really? Did you not see the hearings? You do realize that none of the recalls were voluntary, right? Your perception is 180* of reality on this one...

P71 wrote:

ignorant wrote: Sorry people, but it looks like toyota was hurt, but their recovery was much more classy than anything GM has done.

What recovery? Sales in the US are down 10%, there';s still hourly news/blog articles bringing them down, there's still a Senate hearing, they've "fixed" 1 mil of the 8 to 10 mil cars, there's still a $1 mil bounty on proving the real problem, and now they have to poor an "unlimited" budget into a 3rd party NA quality unit. And "classy", really? Did you *not* see the hearings? You do realize that *none* of the recalls were voluntary, right? Your perception is 180* of reality on this one...

not to mention now it comes out they've been holding out on the black box data.

alfadriver wrote:

ignorant wrote:

alfadriver wrote: preception vs. reality

perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs, especially about products and service.

No, it's not. preception- Toytoa = low cost manufacturer, reality- both GM and Ford are a lots lower preception- Toyota- creative engineering, reality- Toytoa generally chooses the most expensive solution when careful engnieering is better- example- 12 injector direct injection V6 preception- Toyota- great reliabilty- reality- oil sludging, frame rust, throttle, etc etc... Eric

That's the thing... you're the only person that i know of that has the first two PERceptions.

Stop passing off your perceptions as facts. They aren't facts. They're opinion. How YOU feel, or how YOU perceive something. Not necessarily the rest of the world.

Don't you find it strange that the majority of the people in this thread would in fact buy a Toyota again?

I won't buy a new Toyota. I don't like them. This issue has not changed my feelings at all. I also won't buy a new GM. I don't like them. Their current issues hasn't changed my feelings at all. I won't buy a new Ford. I don't like them. I respect that they seem to be doing the right thing, they definitely get brownie points in my book. Brownie points don't sell cars to me.

From a reliability standpoint, my Toyotas have been the most reliable cars i've ever had. No argument even necessary. Are the cars i've had relevant to the issue at hand? Absolutely not. But because of my experiences, i know that i like Toyotas in general. That i don't like GMs in general. That i'm not really a huge Ford fan in general.

Those experiences, even if they're with 20 year old cars, will absolutely impact my decisions if i were to EVER buy a new car. That's how 99.9% of people work.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

ignorant wrote:

alfadriver wrote: preception vs. reality

perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs, especially about products and service.

No, it's not. preception- Toytoa = low cost manufacturer, reality- both GM and Ford are a lots lower preception- Toyota- creative engineering, reality- Toytoa generally chooses the most expensive solution when careful engnieering is better- example- 12 injector direct injection V6 preception- Toyota- great reliabilty- reality- oil sludging, frame rust, throttle, etc etc... Eric

That's the thing... you're the only person that i know of that has the first two PERceptions. Stop passing off your perceptions as facts. They aren't facts. They're opinion. How YOU feel, or how YOU perceive something. Not necessarily the rest of the world. Don't you find it strange that the majority of the people in this thread would in fact buy a Toyota again?

I do find that strange seeing as this is an automotive forum and Toyota is the most boring car company sold in the US.

93celicaGT2 wrote: Don't you find it strange that the majority of the people in this thread would in fact buy a Toyota again?... ...I won't buy a new Toyota.

Irony escapes you....

But you and ignorant do not equal "the majority of the people". The majority of the Toyaduh Kool-Aid drinkers maybe...

Cotton wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

ignorant wrote:

alfadriver wrote: preception vs. reality

perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs, especially about products and service.

No, it's not. preception- Toytoa = low cost manufacturer, reality- both GM and Ford are a lots lower preception- Toyota- creative engineering, reality- Toytoa generally chooses the most expensive solution when careful engnieering is better- example- 12 injector direct injection V6 preception- Toyota- great reliabilty- reality- oil sludging, frame rust, throttle, etc etc... Eric

That's the thing... you're the only person that i know of that has the first two PERceptions. Stop passing off your perceptions as facts. They aren't facts. They're opinion. How YOU feel, or how YOU perceive something. Not necessarily the rest of the world. Don't you find it strange that the majority of the people in this thread would in fact buy a Toyota again?

I do find that strange seeing as this is an automotive forum and Toyota is the most boring car company sold in the US.

I definitely agree with you from that standpoint. They haven't made an interesting car since 2005. Some people need appliances, though. I don't really need one, so i'm not interested, either.

P71 wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: Don't you find it strange that the majority of the people in this thread would in fact buy a Toyota again?... ...I won't buy a new Toyota.

Irony escapes you.... But you and ignorant do not equal "the majority of the people". The majority of the Toyaduh Kool-Aid drinkers maybe...

If you'd like to argue about semantics, feel free to make a poll. There's quite a few more people in this thread that have said that besides Iggy.

I fail to see the irony there. I never said that i would buy a new Toyota. In fact, i've said the opposite through all of these debates. The fact remains that there are still plenty of people willing to buy a new one. This thread is an example.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

ignorant wrote: perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs

If this were true there would be a smoking hot porn star with awesome cooking skills whos turn-ons include watching a middle aged guy install the wrong engine in a car. She would be sitting on a chair made of $1000 bills. Holding a pitcher of cold beer.

Yup, got mine. What's your problem? Didn't the conductor punch your ticket with "BELIEVE?"

93celicaGT2 wrote: That's the thing... you're the only person that i know of that has the first two PERceptions. Stop passing off your perceptions as facts. They aren't facts. They're opinion. How YOU feel, or how YOU perceive something. Not necessarily the rest of the world. Don't you find it strange that the majority of the people in this thread would in fact buy a Toyota again?

Which part is or isn't facts?

It is a fact that Toyota spends more to make cars than GM or Ford- it's laid out in everyone's financial reports. Go look them up. Or is it that people don't think that Toyota is a low cost maker- I get that idea all over the place, especially with groups that hate the UAW and their legacy costs. When you factor in Labor, that tilts the cost side even farther toward GM and Ford.

It is a fact that Toyota isnt' any better than Honda and Ford in terms of quality- independant studies do show that. IMHO, people put Toyota on some magical platform and say they are SOOOO good. Yes, they are good, but that THAT good. And to think that GM builds complete crap on the order of Yugo vs. Toyota is wrong, too. For the cost, GM is a great deal (which is why people really are still buying GM products).

And it IS a fact that Toyota used a PFI/DI 12 injector set up on a V6 engine whereas Ford (we) used just the 6 DI injectors on a turbo, and our emissions are better. You tell me which fuel system is more expensive.

Does it bother me that people want to buy Toyotas- no, people are free to choose what they want. Does it bother me that people think Toyota is SO good that the ignore other brands when Toyota has the exact same problems that those brands do? Very much. I think I've made that pretty clear over the past few years. Just like when people bash Ford for reason X when Honda and Toyota have the exact same reason X (and on this board- reason X is generally why you won't buy a new 'yota).

Why is it me that has these preceptions/facts? No idea- but do pay attention to what our competitors are doing. Very close attention. I know for sure that 2010 was going to be a very painful year for Toyota well before they had these quality issues- the market took too much of a tumble for them to support their cost structure. Now I have no idea what is going to happen. But I also know that Toyota has huge amounts of cash reserves to be able to weather this storm. What I don't know is in what form they come out on the other side.

Eric

This batch of recalls certainly hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for the FT-86, but I wonder how the perception of Toyota problems will affect the way the car is branded.

If you were Joe Toyoda, how would you market this new car? Is it a better tool to rebuild Toyota's reputation, or is there an advantage in using Subaru's perceived innocence in the whole recall matter?

Oh, and back to the original topic- Bob Lutz is a genuine car guy, even if he's become a cranky old blame monger.

Eric, you're completely missing my point, and i'm pretty convinced that you've missed my point throughout this entire thread. I can't explain what i'm trying to say any better...

You've picked a terrible example in the $5k figure, and your perceptions don't match in the first place with at least half the population. (Show me one person who thinks that Toyota spends LESS than GM/Ford in building a vehicle.) Because perceptions are like opinions, which are like shiny happy people.

So. Carry on. I'm out.

Tom Heath wrote: This batch of recalls certainly hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for the FT-86, but I wonder how the perception of Toyota problems will affect the way the car is branded. If you were Joe Toyoda, how would you market this new car? Is it a better tool to rebuilt Toyota's reputation, or is there an advantage in using Subaru's perceived innocence in the whole recall matter? Oh, and back to the original topic- Bob Lutz is a genuine car guy, even if he's become a cranky old blame monger.

I'm looking forward to the FT-86 too, but am concerned it might get cancelled.

In reply to 93celicaGT2:

"Those experiences, even if they're with 20 year old cars, will absolutely impact my decisions if i were to EVER buy a new car. That's how 99.9% of people work. "

Haven't we gone over how the majority of people are morons? That particular bit of mentality is simply lacking in education, and filled with unreasonable bias. I mean, popular music and popular TV, the voting record of the population, and the average driver skill level proves they are morons with no taste or education, but let them choose Camrys and suddenly they are Mensa candidates with infallable, reasoned logic and completely defensable purchasing patterns.

Smart people learn new things and constantly examine and adjust their opinions instead of chisling them in stone and saying "I don't care what the facts are, my opinion is over here in stone."

Personally, I'm a car fan, and I'll buy a car I like with zero regard for the badge. yes, I'll note that some badges have made many more cars I like than others, but I won't be dissuaded from considering a car based on what another example from the badge was a decade or two ago.

I believe you may have just called me a moron....

Chris_V wrote: I'll note that some badges have made many more cars I like than others, but I won't be dissuaded from considering a car based on what another example from the badge was a decade or two ago.

I know exactly what you're sayin' here........

P71 wrote:

ignorant wrote: Sorry people, but it looks like toyota was hurt, but their recovery was much more classy than anything GM has done.

What recovery? Sales in the US are down 10%, there';s still hourly news/blog articles bringing them down, there's still a Senate hearing, they've "fixed" 1 mil of the 8 to 10 mil cars, there's still a $1 mil bounty on proving the real problem, and now they have to poor an "unlimited" budget into a 3rd party NA quality unit. And "classy", really? Did you *not* see the hearings? You do realize that *none* of the recalls were voluntary, right? Your perception is 180* of reality on this one...

U looooooooose AGAIN

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/03/toyota-incentives-will-turn-lookers-into-buyers/1

alfadriver wrote:

ignorant wrote:

alfadriver wrote: preception vs. reality

perception is reality. We create reality with our thoughts and beliefs, especially about products and service.

No, it's not. preception- Toytoa = low cost manufacturer, reality- both GM and Ford are a lots lower preception- Toyota- creative engineering, reality- Toytoa generally chooses the most expensive solution when careful engnieering is better- example- 12 injector direct injection V6 preception- Toyota- great reliabilty- reality- oil sludging, frame rust, throttle, etc etc... Eric

You need a marketing class.

ignorant wrote: You need a marketing class.

You need a clue.

BTW, projections do not equal actual sales.