Mounting a Rad Sideways

I have a nice new aluminum rad that'll fit in the nose of my Europa if I install it laying on its side.

The rad isn't the high point on the cooling system so there's a swirl tank and rad cap mounted high in the engine bay. My question is 1) will a rad still have proper flow if it's mounted sideways and 2) should I TIG the rad cap opening closed or could I get away with a higher pressure cap and a plugged overflow?

My TIG skills are questionable at best so I'd have to shop out a job that has to be watertight and pressure proof.

Any input?

No offense, just an observation:

I don't think that I've ever heard an American citizen use the word "rad" to describe a radiator.

Carry on.

what do you mean "sideways" The original Mini had it's radiator "sideways" with the transverse cooling fan blowing air from the engine compartment, through the radiator, and into the left wheel well.

The original Nissan 300zx had it's radiator "laid down" in the nose of the car with ducting to allow the cooling fan to pull air up from beneath the bumper, through the radiator, and into the engine compartment.

If by "sidways" you meant laid down.. I am pretty sure it could work. I would make sure the radiator cap was of a non-releash type and maybe wire it shut if you cannot easily get at it for the occasional check.

Woody wrote: No offense, just an observation: I don't think that I've ever heard an American citizen use the word "rad" to describe a radiator. Carry on.

from his profile: Location: Courtice, ON

Mount it anyway you want. The important / fun will be getting the air out of it and getting air flow through it.

Don't MR2's have side mounted rad's..er... radiators?

No...MR2s have a conventional cooling system, with about 10 extra feet of plumbing. Radiator in the front. MR2 turbos had side mount intercoolers.

In reply to wayslow:

It would seem that with proper inflow ducting (and maybe a big honking electric fan), you should be able to make it work as long as the thing's not perpendicular to the airflow coming in the front of the car. Didn't some of the old rear-engine Hillmans & Fiats have the radiator beside the engine?

The third gen corvettes have a slanted radiator as well, if your laying it down, all you have to do is make sure that the air is forced through it and not allowed to go around. My vette runs perfect all day long but if I take off the cheesy little spoiler right underneath the radiator and drive faster then 30 mph, the air goes everywhere except the radiator and it overheats instantly.

friedgreencorrado wrote: In reply to wayslow: It would seem that with proper inflow ducting (and maybe a big honking electric fan), you should be able to make it work as long as the thing's not perpendicular to the airflow coming in the front of the car. Didn't some of the old rear-engine Hillmans & Fiats have the radiator beside the engine?

The Hillman Imp, water-cooled rear-engined Fiats like the 600, (and rear engined Renaults, too?) had the rad mounted beside the engine. But I think wayslow means mounting it "laid-down", like MM said.

Luke wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: In reply to wayslow: It would seem that with proper inflow ducting (and maybe a big honking electric fan), you should be able to make it work as long as the thing's not perpendicular to the airflow coming in the front of the car. Didn't some of the old rear-engine Hillmans & Fiats have the radiator beside the engine?

The Hillman Imp, water-cooled rear-engined Fiats like the 600, (and rear engined Renaults, too?) had the rad mounted beside the engine. But I think wayslow means mounting it "laid-down", like MM said.

Ah. Laid down's been done a lot. gigalojoe's right. as long as you can force the air through the thing, it should be OK.

Thanks for all the input. I guess I didn't explain myself very well. The rad will still be mounted upright but I need to rotate it 90 degrees in order to make it fit. This means that the rad cap will no longer be on the top of the rad but on the side. This also means that the inlet and outlet pipes won't be at the top and bottom of the rad but on the sides. Will this have a negative impact on the coolant flow through the rad?

I think it should be fine but I've been wrong before.

Woody wrote: No offense, just an observation: I don't think that I've ever heard an American citizen use the word "rad" to describe a radiator. Carry on.

Woody,

I'm typing this response whilst sitting on my chesterfield, my Wife is contemplating a new room colour and my Daughter is getting ready to head to the shopping centre to take advantage of the Boxing Day sales.

I think it'll work.

The main problem is "how to fill" as you mentioned and enough air flow. My Liberty does not have a cap on the radiator it is on a tank mounted on the firewall.

It should work but like iceracer said, you'll need to worry about filling it. Since you have a tank mounted up high already and one radiator cap on the swirl tank, you may be able to just tig up the opening on the radiator. I believed the expansion tanks from moroso that come with radiator caps tell you not to run another high pressure cap on the radiator, that you only need one for the whole cooling system, I'm not sure on this though, as I've never had this come up as an issue for me.

The 944's dont have a cap on the rad at all. Only on the tank.

That raises another question. If a tank is pressurised it is part of the cooling system and not an expansion tank. An expansion tank is usually not pressurised and is where the anti-frees vents to (when it expands) and is sucked from when things cool down. . . . Or am I all wrong about this. (not the first time for sure) Or is it an overflow tank or are they one and the same and it does not matter what side the tank is on relative to the cap. Ok This is hurting my head I need another cup of coffee. Got a late start this AM.

wayslow wrote:

Woody wrote: No offense, just an observation: I don't think that I've ever heard an American citizen use the word "rad" to describe a radiator. Carry on.

Woody, I'm typing this response whilst sitting on my chesterfield, my Wife is contemplating a new room colour and my Daughter is getting ready to head to the shopping centre to take advantage of the Boxing Day sales.

I don't know what you're talking aboot.

Honda's RC51 race bike did exactly that for the V twin.

oh! I see what you are saying now.. instead of sitting so that the radiator cap is ontop, you are rotating the whole assembly so the cap (and end tanks) are on the sides. You may have to fab up a fill, but it should work

I'm trying to figure out why you are having trouble fitting a radiator in a Europa. There's an enormous amount of space.

-The original was kind of square and flowed through to the wheelwell. Lots of small square ones would fit- Yugo, or other small compacts.

-I'm laying mine down "V" style above the opening in the nose and fabbing ducting to draft through a modified hood, ala the type 62's. Protects the smooth underbelly and gives more downforce. Still deciding whether my intercooler will be here as well.

-Any small Honda (or other) style radiator should fit in any of the 4 wheelwells.

-The engine bay is large enough to fit one from a Mack truck. Draft down from the stock openings in the deck, up from underneath, or in from the sides through custom intakes.

-Also could fit a huge one in the rear over the trans. Draft down from the stock openings in the deck, or in through the rear wheelwells.

SVreX wrote: I'm trying to figure out why you are having trouble fitting a radiator in a Europa. There's an enormous amount of space. -The original was kind of square and flowed through to the wheelwell. Lots of small square ones would fit- Yugo, or other small compacts. -I'm laying mine down "V" style above the opening in the nose and fabbing ducting to draft through a modified hood, ala the type 62's. Protects the smooth underbelly and gives more downforce. Still deciding whether my intercooler will be here as well. -Any small Honda (or other) style radiator should fit in any of the 4 wheelwells. -The engine bay is large enough to fit one from a Mack truck. Draft down from the stock openings in the deck, up from underneath, or in from the sides through custom intakes. -Also could fit a huge one in the rear over the trans. Draft down from the stock openings in the deck, or in through the rear wheelwells.

Hey Paul,

I'm not really having a problem fitting a rad into the Europa. I'm having a hard time fitting the rad I have into the stock location.

It hadn't ocurred to me that I could mount it back in the engine bay, that's what I love about this board. Thanks for the ideas.

Can you tilt/slant the radiator to get clearance ?

I would try tilting first too..

as for the fiats.. all the rear engined cars had rear mounted radiators.. (the X does not count..) the 500, 600, and 850

You are basically taking a downflow radiator and turning it into a crossflow! Or the other way around. I talked this over with a radiator guy once and he said to make sure the hot flow from the engine should enter at the top of the radiator and the cooler water exits at the bottom. Ideally the inlet/outlet positions should be to diagonal corners with the cap away from the hot inlet. Most modern cars use a side tank crossflow radiator because they are easier to fit in lower hoods. I have a 69 and a 70 Mustang that have downflow radiators with the cap in the center of the top tank. One of them has both outlets on the drivers side while the other is corner to corner.

If you ever look under the hood of a Cobra, you will see a remote tank setup.

Bruce