RX-8, GTO, and WRX Reliability

+1 on the GTO

I have had my '04 for about a month and a half now, and have put about 3k miles on it. I am in love. This car is everything you could want in a GT car. Comfort, speed, power, looks. I can drive for 6 hours straight and never get monkey butt. 27.5mpg on my last trip was also very nice. I do wish they hadn't moved the gas tank to take up half the trunk, but thats my only complaint. The RX8 and the STI were both too thirsty for my liking. You'll get addicted to torque though... don't say I didn't warn you.

I had a 2006 wrx for about two weeks before the Ungulate branch of the Taliban (effing deer) conducted a successful attack on the car. It was a wonderful car, unfortunately I didn't have it for long enough to give you a reliability report on in.

The need to carry a dog, crashpads etc would have me looking for a WRX wagon... I really really like my friends GTO, Its interior is great, and its acceleration is fun, but its trunk is ridiculously small for such a large coupe...

Have you test driven all three yet? If your having trouble finding GTO's up in the sac area, a quick craigslist search turned up several down in the bay area...

Salanis wrote: Also, I don't suppose anyone can chime in with 06-07 / vs '08 WRX impressions? Unfortunately the 09 would probably be a bit beyond our price point. I've heard reviews (including on GRM) about the 08's just being too soft.

Best WRX to get would be an '06. You get the 2.5L that is less laggy and more powerful than the 2.0L found in the '02-'05 models, the interior is nicer, and it keeps the aluminum A-arms (they were replaced by steel parts in the '07, though I think the aluminum parts swap in).

Certain '08 models had rod-bearing issues that required complete new engines from Subaru, so if you're looking at an '08, make sure it was not part of the recall. There is a HUGE thread here on NASIOC:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1648372

The GTO is indestructible, MUCH better for street driving than the others-especially long trips. WRX-great if weather is an issue. RX8? can't really find a reason to select this one over the other two.

FYI, the GTO's trunk is twice the size as it looks. You just have to remove the stupid factory "subwoofer". It is also indestructible and super reliable. John's 05 did 13.0's stock, HPDE's like a dream, and won a Regional Championship in STU. I will buy an 04 in Cosmos Purple or Barbados Blue before I die.

That said, I need a wagon and since they don't make P71 wagons (shudder at how cool that would be...) I'm shopping for a bugeye WRX. Of course, I was originally shopping RX-8's when I got sick of dealers and ended up with the P71 and the RX-7...

Honestly, these 3 are probably the best attainable cars of the last 10 years. You really can't go wrong.

Capt Slow wrote: The need to carry a dog, crashpads etc would have me looking for a WRX wagon... I really really like my friends GTO, Its interior is great, and its acceleration is fun, but its trunk is ridiculously small for such a large coupe...

The dog is small. Just a little 15# mutt, so we don't need a hatch to haul her around. We would actually be fine with a 911 back "seat" (we actually considered that, but are looking for newer cars). She's also the only necessity for space (maybe a cat carrier for vet trips). It would be kinda nice to have room for crash pads, but that's why I've got a van. Hatchback practicality would be a bonus, definitely not a necessity.

I test drove an '08 STi today. The dealer didn't have any '08-'10 WRX's in stock. The girlfriend did like the look of it. Apparently '06 STi's are in the price range. An '06 WRX might be a better fit, purely from a price standpoint.

I'm planning to test drive a GTO tomorrow and report to her. We were going to test one yesterday, but had a bad experience at the dealer: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/used-car-dealer-pissed-me-off/25881/page1/

PS if your looking for an RX8, look for one that was redline'd daily and generally beaten on motor wise. Its really easy to get those stupid side ported renisis to carbon up and cause issues. Other then that they are super solid, and if you keep the fluids in check and the temp normal it will live a very long life. Oh crap, I forgot that goes for any car. Well isn't that strange....

ReverendDexter wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: WRX>GTO>RX8 for reliability.

I question this. How is a DOHC turbo AWD car more reliable than an N/A pushrod RWD? This just seems like the typical bias that Japanese cars are somehow more reliable than American cars.

Well I've seen what Imprezas can stand up to and they're definitely built to take a beating. Drivetrain-wise, the GTO does have a bit of a reliability advantage (I'd put my money on a DOHC valvetrain for reliability every time, but the turbo and AWD are more stuff that can break).

GTOs as DDs seem to be pretty reliable - I haven't seen how they stand up to being driven hard though.

So both are good choices in terms of reliability, and I did recommend the Subaru on reputation. Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

GameboyRMH wrote: Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

Seriously? The 2.2/2.5 head gasket fiasco is reliable? How about failing piston skirts? Dishonoring warranties after including a free SCCA membership?

P71 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

Seriously? The 2.2/2.5 head gasket fiasco is reliable? How about failing piston skirts? Dishonoring warranties after including a free SCCA membership?

I'm trying to figure out what the last has to do with whether or not the car is reliable.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

P71 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

Seriously? The 2.2/2.5 head gasket fiasco is reliable? How about failing piston skirts? Dishonoring warranties after including a free SCCA membership?

I'm trying to figure out what the last has to do with whether or not the car is reliable.

"Here's our awesome car! Here's this awesome thing it can do! Here, a free membership to a club that does that awesome thing!"

..

"Wait, you did WHAT in this car? Yeah, that's abuse, we're not fixing that unless you pay for it".

Oh, and I'm not a GM fan, I'm a Ford guy.

ReverendDexter wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

P71 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

Seriously? The 2.2/2.5 head gasket fiasco is reliable? How about failing piston skirts? Dishonoring warranties after including a free SCCA membership?

I'm trying to figure out what the last has to do with whether or not the car is reliable.

"Here's our awesome car! Here's this awesome thing it can do! Here, a free membership to a club that does that awesome thing!" .. "Wait, you did WHAT in this car? Yeah, that's abuse, we're not fixing that unless you pay for it". Oh, and I'm not a GM fan, I'm a Ford guy.

Sure, i get that...

Doesn't speak to the car, though. Rather, it speaks to shady corporate practices. The point was made before the silly off-subject jab.

My wife owns a yellow 2005 GTO 6 speed since it was new. The LS motors are rock solid and make great power. They are a great deal for the money. She drives it every day she does not ride her Harley.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

P71 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

Seriously? The 2.2/2.5 head gasket fiasco is reliable? How about failing piston skirts? Dishonoring warranties after including a free SCCA membership?

I'm trying to figure out what the last has to do with whether or not the car is reliable.

"Here's our awesome car! Here's this awesome thing it can do! Here, a free membership to a club that does that awesome thing!" .. "Wait, you did WHAT in this car? Yeah, that's abuse, we're not fixing that unless you pay for it". Oh, and I'm not a GM fan, I'm a Ford guy.

Sure, i get that... Doesn't speak to the car, though. Rather, it speaks to shady corporate practices. The point was made before the silly off-subject jab.

You called GM fans butthurt after making false statements.

(Coming from a guy who's shopping for a WRX)

P71 wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

P71 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Sorry if the GM fans get butthurt but they've only been turning out uniformly reliable cars for about a decade. Subaru has a better record in this department.

Seriously? The 2.2/2.5 head gasket fiasco is reliable? How about failing piston skirts? Dishonoring warranties after including a free SCCA membership?

I'm trying to figure out what the last has to do with whether or not the car is reliable.

"Here's our awesome car! Here's this awesome thing it can do! Here, a free membership to a club that does that awesome thing!" .. "Wait, you did WHAT in this car? Yeah, that's abuse, we're not fixing that unless you pay for it". Oh, and I'm not a GM fan, I'm a Ford guy.

Sure, i get that... Doesn't speak to the car, though. Rather, it speaks to shady corporate practices. The point was made before the silly off-subject jab.

You called GM fans butthurt after making false statements. (Coming from a guy who's shopping for a WRX)

Lost me there....

Silly off-subject jab. He said GM owners were butthurt (which is silly, and off-topic) and I countered with Subaru denying warranties after handing out free SCCA memberships (not silly, slightly off-topic).

Point is, the GTO wins reliabilty, period. The Subaru's have more stuff to break, and are designed more to a price point (glass transmissions, thin pistons, cheap gaskets, etc). I would even rate the RX-8 over the WRX.

But since GM never imported the glorious Holden Commodore Wagon, I have to hatchback shop for a WRX. Not like it's a bad thing, as Subaru reliablity still puts Toyota to shame (ooooh, silly and off topic again!).

This page is full of opinions. Take them all with a grain of salt.

So, which years/motors on the Subaru had what problems? I figure that turbo and AWD will, by definition, require more and costlier maintenance. I've heard about head gasket issues, but don't know if that's still something I need to be worried about. I hadn't heard about the piston skirts.

Also, why are people recommending '06 WRX's over, say, '09?

Most of Subaru's issues were pre-WRX (hence, why I'm shopping for one). The piston skirt issue is explained in GRM's WRX Buyer's Guide (invaluable, along with the RX-8 one. Hey! They should do a GTO one!). And the 08+'s aren't really all that great dynamically, and they are really ugly (to people like me who adore bugeye's and Gremlins).

P71 wrote: Most of Subaru's issues were pre-WRX (hence, why I'm shopping for one). The piston skirt issue is explained in GRM's WRX Buyer's Guide (invaluable, along with the RX-8 one. Hey! They should do a GTO one!). And the 08+'s aren't really all that great dynamically, and they are really ugly (to people like me who adore bugeye's and Gremlins).

The girlfriend liked the look of the new WRX. I don't have strong feelings about it either way.

I like the bugeyes and even the ultra-angular racerboy ones. I'm not noticing those buyer's guides online immediately. What issue would they be in? I think I may have the WRX one in one of me older issues. I don't think I've seen the RX-8 one though.

I'd suggest you drive a 5 speed Forester XT... if you could find one. More utility than a WRX and you can make them handle pretty darn well.

That being said, it's more important to get a car will good maintenance records than anything else. A normally reliable car isn't worth jack if it's been 8k miles between oil changes and beaten like a rental.

i thought the wrx transmission issues were only through early 04 models, after which they all got the beefier first and second gearsets? but, if you beat on any of them, they're going to break.

Clearly, the RX-8--a superbly balanced car that has garnered countless accolades from the automotive press--is the most reliable. The rotary engine's famous lack of torque will make the entire driveline last forever. Either of those other brutishly unsophisticated cars will destroy parts faster than you can buy new ones. The choice is obvious: RX-8

I rest my case.

Strizzo wrote: i thought the wrx transmission issues were only through early 04 models, after which they all got the beefier first and second gearsets? but, if you beat on any of them, they're going to break.

The WRX transmission is built to a price point, and has all it can handle with a mildly modded (downpipe, exhaust, tune) WRX, especially after they went to the 2.5L turbo motor. The STI transmission and drivetrain, on the other hand, is pretty bulletproof. If you're going to keep the WRX stock (or fairly stock) and don't beat on it with 7K clutch drops, etc. you should be fine. However, if your significant other is going to want a lot more power, then it might make sense to go with an STI out of the gate.

I like all of these cars, so I'll be make sure to reference this thread when I'm on the market again in a few years...

She's interested in learning to wrench on her own cars and maybe some minor tinkering. I doubt that slapping on power will be her primary goal, if at all. I think I've pretty well drilled into her head performance through handling. I can't really imagine her doing 7k clutch drops.

She had an amusing chat with a mechanic today about the RX-8. She's heard it's hard to find shops that will work on a rotary engine and it's had her second guessing her interest in them.

Apparently it started as an amusing conversation. She called the guy asking if he has worked on, and is willing to work on RX-8's. He asked, "Why would you want one of those?" kind of taken aback or something.

She responded, "Have you ever driven one?!?"

Apparently he chuckled and conceded that point.

He finally told her what she needed to hear, which is to have an unbiased and knowledgeable party tell her what she wanted/needed to hear, "You need to put your butt in the seat. When you sit in the right car, you'll know." Made her a lot more confident about her interest in the RX-8.

She's still planning to test drive the WRX (or STi) and GTO.