So, Harbor Freight tools and lots of auto parts are suddenly going to cost a lot more. Plans?

In reply to kb58 :

I don't believe your leader could win a game of checkers.

kevlarcorolla said:

In reply to kb58 :

I don't believe your leader could win a game of checkers.

The one we had for the last 9 years isn't anything to brag about either.

In reply to ShawnG :

Oh I know....

It might well be time for Americans to stop thinking about buying  and worshiping all things cheap. The nation needs a long term vision for US based manufacturing and the will to see it to the end regardless of the interim challenges.

There is no universe in which the US is going to compete with the developing world or even the developed world when it comes to the cost of manufacturing goods. That ship sailed 40 years ago when the US decided that a non-tangible economy was the way of the future. 

If the US really does want to return to manufacturing tangible goods,  what they  CAN do, is borrow a page from Germany after WW2 when their reputation and economy were equally in taters. Germans set out to be not the biggest  or cheapest manufacturers of all things, but more like ,"THE BEST" manufactures of whatever they made. Knifes, Cars, Cameras, pottery, Beer, you name it and they created a small-to- medium-sized company that would develop a world wide reputation of excellence for a given product. That ploy let Germany recover from a PR and economic fiasco and eventually evolve to become Europe's leading industrial power and economy. But it took a vision that went beyond one 4 year term. If the tariffs hold, the country has enough captive consumers to make this work.

In the meantime, the rest of the world will keep buying cheap crap  from whoever is selling cheap crap since other economies won't be able to, or want to, buy whatever goods are made short-term in the USA.

NOHOME said:

If the US really does want to return to manufacturing tangible goods,  what they  CAN do, is borrow a page from Germany after WW2 when their reputation and economy were equally in taters. Germans set out to be not the biggest  or cheapest manufacturers of all things, but more like ,"THE BEST" manufactures of whatever they made. Knifes, Cars, Cameras, pottery, Beer, you name it and they created a small-to- medium-sized company that would develop a world wide reputation of excellence for a given product. That ploy let Germany recover from a PR and economic fiasco and eventually evolve to become Europe's leading industrial power and economy. But it took a vision that went beyond one 4 year term. If the tariffs hold, the country has enough captive consumers to make this work.

While policy choices did matter and did help to shape surprisingly positive outcomes, bear in mind that West Germany also received some 3.3 billion USD (roughly 40 billion in today's money) in US Marshall Plan and other aid between 1948 and 1952, and was not responsible for its own defense at that time, and thus did not have to expend resources on military forces.

The US does not currently enjoy such advantages.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Actually they do. By being the planet's reserve currency the US can print all the $$$$ they want or need. Been printing money like crazy since 2008 so we know it works; 40 billion is chump change to the Fed.. If that $$$ went to something tangible in the form of manufacturing "stuff" instead of  endlessly bailing out Wall St, a lot could be accomplished. 

To bring this back on topic:

You mention the military,  while I do not have enough knowledge to speak of the business model or profitability of the US military-industrial machine, it is a good example of what I speak of: The world does beat a path to the USA when it comes to buying their killing-implements and services, regardless of what they cost, cause they are  perceived as the best. The US just need to spread that sauce on the rest of the nations products. Why could this not happen?

If you think you are failing at something, the answer is not to blame everybody else, but to determine why you're a failure and fix it. Thinking you can tax your way out of it is an even bigger indicator that you don't understand what's going on..

Peabody said:

If you think you are failing at something, the answer is not to blame everybody else, but to determine why you're a failure and fix it. Thinking you can tax your way out of it is an even bigger indicator that you don't understand what's going on..

The same mindset applies to how we're dealing with the drug problem, blaming the countries sending the stuff. Both parties are part of the problem yet we assign 100% blame elsewhere.

I caution on the side of patience.  For example when we were negotiating the end of the Vietnam war in Paris, Kissinger and his team rented hotel rooms for a week, the North Vietnamese leased a house for 3 years.   My experience has been whoever is in a hurry to complete a negotiation is usually the loser. 

In reply to NOHOME :

But do we really want to develop manufacturing capability for everything?

There are a lot of low margin products swept up in the tariffs that we probably don't want to invest in infrastructure to develop.

I would expect a targeted tariff strategy to be as effective in the desirable areas of industry without the massive market disruption taking place. 

Likewise, a strategy with low tariff that ramp up over a defined time period would give industries the time to bring infrastructure and people online without the shock value to the US citizens. 

I won't go any further since it would be too tempting to slip into more politically biased opinions comparing oranges and anvils. 
 

No Time said:

In reply to NOHOME :

But do we really want to develop manufacturing capability for everything? There are a lot of low margin products swept up in the tariffs that we probably don't want to invest in infrastructure to develop.

Right. If the 145% tariff means that the $7 USB stick drive you want now costs $17.14, will you still buy it? Most likely. Can/could a US manufacturer produce that same USB stick drive for $17.14? Not likely.

No Time said:

In reply to NOHOME :

But do we really want to develop manufacturing capability for everything? There are a lot of low margin products swept up in the tariffs that we probably don't want to invest in infrastructure to develop.

Right. If the 145% tariff means that the $7 USB stick drive you want now costs $17.14, will you still buy it? Most likely. Can/could a US manufacturer produce that same USB stick drive for $17.14? Not likely.

In reply to kb58 :

Finally, someone admits its all just another tax on the working class. Thank you.

I give this thread less than a week...

Appleseed said:

I give this thread less than a week...

I think the depends on the weekend weather. The nicer the weather, the better chances this thread can stick around due to people doing outdoor activities. 

In reply to NOHOME :

That sounds like a political slogan to me.

In reply to Mustang50 :

eh?

Appleseed said:

I give this thread less than a week...

I thought we were all having a pretty reasonable discussion.

But I think that about a lot of threads that get locked on here.

ShawnG said:

I thought we were all having a pretty reasonable discussion.

We are.

Five pages in there are notable absences.

Coincidence?

In reply to Peabody :

You know the score.

kb58 said:

No Time said:

In reply to NOHOME :

But do we really want to develop manufacturing capability for everything? There are a lot of low margin products swept up in the tariffs that we probably don't want to invest in infrastructure to develop.

Right. If the 145% tariff means that the $7 USB stick drive you want now costs $17.14, will you still buy it? Most likely. Can/could a US manufacturer produce that same USB stick drive for $17.14? Not likely.

Will the tax money be spent to subsidize local manufacture, as other countries do?

Canadian, me.  Talking to supplier of mine, told me of an industrial wheel company here who had ordered $500,000 worth of wheels.  By the time the Chinese built wheels, bought from an American company got here, the total bill was $1,300,000.

I very much doubt the next order is going through an American company...

Peabody said:

If you think you are failing at something, the answer is not to blame everybody else...

Everybody has something. You guys have, what, poutine and Beaumonts. We have blaming the other guy. It's been the national pastime since everybody realized baseball is kinda boring.