So how do you learn how to drive manual "good"?

Best advice is to drive and drive a lot. You will get the hang of it. You will be able to tell from the feel of it when you are doing it right.

I usually shift to neutral at traffic lights but not at stop signs.

As for the clutchless shifting, I do it all the time. But I learned when synchronizers were somewhat rare and have been driving manual transmissions for 57 years.

As Hal said, drive a lot. With practice it will come second nature and you won't even think about it.

On the post about engine braking. Brake pads are cheaper than transmission and clutch parts. Going down a mountain would be an excuse to help the brakes.

Oh yeah, and you should be treating the clutch like an on off switch once you're moving, if you can't work it super fast when shifting without being jerky your timing is off.

I didn't, I learned to drive it WELL.

Practice is the best way to get good at anything.

Hell, you're in Raleigh? Howdy neighbor!

I wouldn't call myself advanced, but if you would like someone to roll with you and give help with the basics, I'm down. I think my feet are too dang small to properly do a heel toe, but maybe I can help you with rev matching your upshifts/downshifts and double clutching.

As others have mentioned, the real challenge lies with fully understanding the power of the clutch, and practicing it's use with no throttle whatsoever. Once you can get the car rolling using no throttle, the rest is mostly perfecting your timing with the introduction of throttle.

Practice makes permanent, so practice good technique. Smooth is far better than speed.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Also put the seat all the way back and drive with arms straight.

To get better at rev-matching / upshifts / downshifts, I'd suggest learning to change gears - without changing the speed of the car.

Wait are you selling the Vic? I did not read the whole thread (don't have the time at the moment).

Re learning to shift. as others have said practice practice practice and it will become automatic. You will not even realize that you are shifting after a while.

SlickDizzy wrote:

The_Jed wrote: I like to pre-load the shifter a bit while accelerating then when you let off the gas it pops out of gear while you're pushing in the clutch. Careful though, it takes a practiced hand to know how much pressure is ideal.

Isn't that really bad for your synchros?

I don't think so … I use this method and shift without the clutch about 20% of the time … both up and down

I'll even slip it into neutral as I'm in the last few feet of a stop sign (and especially a traffic light) and then foot OFF the clutch, I'll coast the last few feet to the stop …

I've put as much as 350k on a car and I've never had to replace a clutch yet .. including my TT/autoX car

Opti wrote: Oh and I don't engine brake. I used to and a driving instructor told me to stop because bad habits on the street translate to bad habits on the track. Haven't been back to a road course or auto cross but it always stuck with me. I'd like some of the more seasoned racers opinions on this

while it's fun to use the engine (rev matching/heel-n-toe) to slow it's not the least expensive way to slow your vehicle … brakes cost WAY less, and are LOTS easier to replace then clutches and/or transmissions

I do rev match on track … but more for the life of the syncros than to help slow the car … brakes are cheap and easy

HiTempguy wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote:

novaderrik wrote: when just driving around, i only use the clutch for starting and stopping.. upshifts are accomplished by letting off the gas and pushing the shifter into the next gear- it pulls itself into gear when the rpm of the crankshaft matches the rpm of the gears in the trans. i put the trans in neutral with foot off the clutch when sitting at stoplights or whatever.

I would not recommend trying this until you have quite a bit of experience driving a manual transmission. It is a very handy skill to have, as it will get you home if you ever have a failure that keeps the clutch engaged, but doing it wrong can cause some serious damage!

Additionally, most modern synchro boxes hate this no matter how good you are. I can clutchless shift a suzuki swift/turbo sprint all day long, but something like a focus or golf? Forget it.

my '14 Chevy Sonic is actually easier to go clutchless than my '01 Integra or any of my '70's, 80's, or '90's Hondas were … YMMV

outasite wrote: In reply to Streetwiseguy: Also put the seat all the way back and drive with arms straight.

dean1484 wrote: Wait are you selling the Vic? I did not read the whole thread (don't have the time at the moment). Re learning to shift. as others have said practice practice practice and it will become automatic. You will not even realize that you are shifting after a while.

Probably. If I had a garage, I'd store it. I work from home now, so don't have a commute. Vics not real great at 5 min city trips.

In reply to wbjones:

Funny, my father told me the same thing when I rev matched and down shifted a 3 on the tree approaching a stop sign. That was over 50 years ago.

wbjones wrote: I do rev match on track … but more for the life of the syncros than to help slow the car … brakes are cheap and easy

Rev match downshifting on track is to avoid upsetting the car, not for braking purposes.

A rough guide for what rpm for accelerating: Moderate start at 1200-1500 up shift at 3200 3500 Moving out into traffic, start 1500-1800 up shift 4000 Fire ball closing from your six start 2500 up shift 6000 Race start in Datsun 1200 start 4500 up shift 8200 Race start two stroke 125, WOT 13,000 up shaft.....as fast as physically possible.

A rough guide for which gear for steady cruise: 0-10 1st 10-20 2nd 20-30 3rd 30-40 4th 40-50 5th 50 up 6th

Accelerate to speed using the prescribed RPM then select the cruise gear.

Drove to my weekend job and back without stalling high five

Tom1200 wrote: A rough guide for what rpm for accelerating: Moderate start at 1200-1500 up shift at 3200 3500 Moving out into traffic, start 1500-1800 up shift 4000 Fire ball closing from your six start 2500 up shift 6000 Race start in Datsun 1200 start 4500 up shift 8200 Race start two stroke 125, WOT 13,000 up shaft.....as fast as physically possible. A rough guide for which gear for steady cruise: 0-10 1st 10-20 2nd 20-30 3rd 30-40 4th 40-50 5th 50 up 6th Accelerate to speed using the prescribed RPM then select the cruise gear.

This actually helps categorize it, thanks.

codrus wrote:

wbjones wrote: I do rev match on track … but more for the life of the syncros than to help slow the car … brakes are cheap and easy

Rev match downshifting on track is to avoid upsetting the car, not for braking purposes.

in a RWD car you're correct … just ask the NASCAR drivers that can't seem to come to an understanding about wheel hop on road courses

but in a FWD car it's pretty much a zero problem … lots of FWD racers don't bother to ever learn to heel and toe .. we were talking about this at lunch last weekend at CMS with a bunch of drivers, wrenches, and team owners … the consensus was RWD … you better know how and do it well, FWD … who cares

there's nothing to upset the car (the rear end) if you don't rev match …

as I said, in my case, I'm mostly doing it to save the syncros .. plus I want to sound like a racer on my videos

I've learned that letting out the clutch smoothly when upshifting will usually have a smooth engagement, even if the revs drop to idle.

I taught myself to heel toe downshift because I heard it impresses the ladies... or something like that.

I actually didn't know it was more important in a RWD car than FWD. I just thought it was an essential skill for driving any car on a track.

Another secret that isn't advertised. Shifting into the intended gear. Easy with the old 4-speeds, simple H pattern. For 5/6 speeds the shifter is spring loaded to center. Put in neutral and let go and it will center which is 3/4, usually. Pull to either side for 1/2 or 5/6.

May be simple but that is something I've shown several older guys that learned on and drive old 4-speeds and never noticed it on the newer 5/6 speeds.

iceracer wrote: On the post about engine braking. Brake pads are cheaper than transmission and clutch parts. Going down a mountain would be an excuse to help the brakes.

+1

Not worth the wear and tear on the transmission and clutch to run down through the gears at every stoplight. Just slow down as much as you can in the gear you are in and shift to neutral until it's time to move.

BlueInGreen44 wrote: I taught myself to heel toe downshift because I heard it impresses the ladies... or something like that. I actually didn't know it was more important in a RWD car than FWD. I just thought it was an essential skill for driving any car on a track.

I did also … until the lunch with all these guys that know WAY more than I do

after thinking about it some, it actually made sense … no power to the rear wheels, nothing about the changing tire speeds (due to gear ratios …) to upset the balance of the car

then I thought back to all the race videos of folk that I admire for their driving ability and remembered how many of them didn't bother to heel and toe … like I said, I do it to save the syncros, but I do realize that I'm not as likely to be at threshold braking while doing the h/n/t bit

I've driven FWD manuals since 1987. Bought a 2015 Mazda3 and it was my first 6 speed. This one surprised me a little, I noticed something unlike the prior cars.

For the first time in years, I found myself grinding gears unexpectedly as it came OUT of gear.

I realized this was happeneing because I developed a habit of pulling the shifter out of gear slightly before pushing in the clutch. Older cars (mostly hondas) didn't seem to mind, but the new mazda transaxle didn't like it.

It's all timing and practice.

So then I adapted, being very conscious to not move the shifter unless the clutch pedal was all the way down. I had to be deliberate about it for a couple days as I re-trained myself, then I was good to go.

Lots of good advice above.