What were discussing here is special models and whether they are noticeably better than the vanilla base models they come from. Example: the ITR versus the base model integra of the same generation. The ITR got an enhanced chassis and hand built motor, And obviously better suspension, but did it receive revised suspension mounting points? Because you hear of people swapping ITR bits onto regular integral and civics. Discuss.
I feel like the older Subaru STIs could fall into this category. Like, kids would buy their WRXs, turn up the boost, and say "its practically an STI". No, not really. Not even close.
Also, another obvious one would be the E30 M3. Got its own engine and had unique suspension geometry and body panels. Definitely a big difference from a simple 325i.
Anything with a polestar badge?
Evo to the lancer would be the ultimate of this.
the E36 and E46 Models were also special from the chassis up.. even if the e36 M model did not look at that different from the run of the mill 318i
The Omni GLH couldn't be any different than the regular omni unless it were RWD.
Typhoon / Syclone
Grand National
The ITR was a little better than a GSR in a lot of ways but could basically be reproduced in the aftermarket, with the biggest advantage being the LSD. We autocrossed a GSR, and it was a very good well-balanced car to begin with. The ITR was great in autocross due to having all its bits allowed in a stock class.
All of the examples so far have massively different greasy bits. An original STi had 3 LSD's where the WRX got 1 IIRC, not to mention the bigger motor and turbo, 6-speed versus 5-speed, etc. The ITR had different suspension arms, wheel bearings and hubs (5 lug!), motor, trans, LSD, etc. Same for the BMW's, totally different underneath. Almost every real muscle car was like that (bigger axle, better gears, LSD, beefier trans with more gears, bigger motor, better suspension and brakes).
Others:
84-86 SVO Mustang versus even a 5.0 GT. The SVO got 4-wheel discs, different suspension, 5-lugs, LSD, the EFI 2.3T with intercooler, Recaros, etc.
87-88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe versus a 5.0 TBird got an 8.8" rear with LSD, 4-wheel discs, ABS, ride control, console/buckets, 5-speed manual, the 2.3T EFI with intercooler, F&R sway bars, etc.
Mazdaspeed3 versus a Mazda3, DISI MZR baby! Same story again, brakes, suspension, trans, LSD.
SRT-4 versus Neon, 15 Shelby GT350/R versus even a 5.0 GT Track Pack!, Boss 302 versus GT Mustang, Terminator Cobra versus a Mach 1/GT, etc etc.
Alfa GTV vs GTA.
Steel v aluminum
Single plug v twin plug.
Luxury features v stripper.
Ion Redline/Cobalt SS vs regular models of those cars are miles apart.
P-cars, base models versus S versus turbo versus gt models.
The Integra Type R engine swap into lesser Integras was popular, but the complete car would be hard to duplicate. I seem to recall that it had thinner window glass, less sound deadening, along with the special hubs, brakes, suspension, hand-built engine, and the limited-slip differential was amazing. I don't think the suspension mounting points were different, but the suspension arms, uprights, hubs, springs, swaybars, and shocks were different. I've heard mixed things about whether the body stampings for the body shell were different or not. Certainly the gap between ITR and GSR was smaller than the gap between the ITR and a base model.
Desmond wrote: I feel like the older Subaru STIs could fall into this category. Like, kids would buy their WRXs, turn up the boost, and say "its practically an STI". No, not really. Not even close.
Yes, this. I drove an '11 WRX sedan and it just felt like a fast Impreza. I drove an '11 STi Sedan and that felt like a completely different car, and a riotously fun one at that.
914-6
Corolla XRS, Celica GT-4, 3000GT VR4 I'll add some more as I think of them
FiST and FoST.
The base models blow in comparison.
Desmond wrote: I feel like the older Subaru STIs could fall into this category. Like, kids would buy their WRXs, turn up the boost, and say "its practically an STI". No, not really. Not even close. Also, another obvious one would be the E30 M3. Got its own engine and had unique suspension geometry and body panels. Definitely a big difference from a simple 325i.
I was going to mention these.
Heck even the WRX was a badass car compared to, say, a 1.8l front drive Impreza. And then there was the 22B which was the E30 M3 of GC-chassis Subarus.
Lancer Evo? Lancer Evo. Any generation.
GT350s had the suspension mounting points relocated relative to standard Mustangs. Of course this wasn't that difficult and you can get templates to do the same thing to your '65 if you wanted...
JtspellS wrote: Anything with a polestar badge? Evo to the lancer would be the ultimate of this.
You want ultimate? I'll give you ultimate.
1984 Lancia Delta.
1984 Lancia Delta Stradale.
One was a front drive unibody econobox, the other was a monocoque/tube frame mid engined AWD homologation special, from back when they had to actually sell what they rallied.
MattGent wrote: Typhoon / Syclone Grand National The ITR was a little better than a GSR in a lot of ways but could basically be reproduced in the aftermarket, with the biggest advantage being the LSD.
So was the GN. They used the same frames and suspension and brakes as a regular old boring Regal. The only mechanical differences besides the engine and lack of chrome or hood ornament were the PowerMaster electric over hydraulic power brake booster, and the 8.5" rearend vs. the weenie 7.5" 10-bolt.
I, er, spend a lot of time around GNs and have been acquiring Rain Man levels of knowledge over what is special about them and what is ordinary G-body.
The turbo engines were even mostly the same as the carbureted ones! We used to buy up all the '109-block carb 231s we could find for cores.
An aside, a sizable percentage of the GNs that I've worked on were reshells. A clue is when the GN has a hood ornament, Buick never did that.
In reply to JtspellS:
How many polstar versions did they even make? I only remember one gnarly s60 they made but the one the public for wasn't AS awesome.
I'm going to have to say the turbo Volvo 240s and also the old 242gt (best handling factory Volvo) but hey can't a guy strum his own harp sometimes? Both had random suspension bits (and the obvious turbo on the turbo) but the gt had the standard engine in America, all other bits could be swapped over (bracing, shocks, ect) but together they made a bland car pretty fun.
Oh another I know no one will mention, srt10 dodge pickup. Slap a viper motor in a pickup and lower it and bam, fastest pickup in the world. Reminds me, has anyone beaten the srt10 record for fastest production truck? Iirc it was 154mph
Javelin wrote: * Mazdaspeed3 versus a Mazda3, DISI MZR baby! Same story again, brakes, suspension, trans, LSD.
I came in here for the mazda content. They have a habit of this. See msp, msm, mx6 gt, etc.
chiodos wrote: In reply to JtspellS: How many polstar versions did they even make? I only remember one gnarly s60 they made but the one the public for wasn't AS awesome. I'm going to have to say the turbo Volvo 240s and also the old 242gt (best handling factory Volvo) but hey can't a guy strum his own harp sometimes? Both had random suspension bits (and the obvious turbo on the turbo) but the gt had the standard engine in America, all other bits could be swapped over (bracing, shocks, ect) but together they made a bland car pretty fun. Oh another I know no one will mention, srt10 dodge pickup. Slap a viper motor in a pickup and lower it and bam, fastest pickup in the world. Reminds me, has anyone beaten the srt10 record for fastest production truck? Iirc it was 154mph
What's really funny is the viper motor started out as the truck v10!
chiodos wrote: Oh another I know no one will mention, srt10 dodge pickup. Slap a viper motor in a pickup and lower it and bam, fastest pickup in the world. Reminds me, has anyone beaten the srt10 record for fastest production truck? Iirc it was 154mph
Did the SRT10 have the Viper engine? I thought it had the truck V10. Leave it to Chrysler to make two completely different engines of identical displacement. (The Vipers were LA based and the truck V10 was Magnum based)
mndsm wrote: What's really funny is the viper motor started out as the truck v10!
No it did not. The Viper V10 was made expressly for the Viper and can be thought of as a stroked 360 with an additional pair of cylinders. The truck V10 has pedestal rockers like a 351C (not shaft rockers) and is a Magnum engine, not an LA engine.
Besides, the truck didn't get the V10 until well after the Viper was around.
Knurled wrote:MattGent wrote: Typhoon / Syclone Grand National autocross due to having all its bits allowed in a stock class.I, er, spend a lot of time around GNs and have been acquiring Rain Man levels of knowledge over what is special about them and what is ordinary G-body.
You must know about the 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am. GN engine with better flowing heads, 4 wheel discs, better aero than a GN.
I ran mine at the Texas Mile, stock motor with race gas and a dump pipe, did 149mph.
The Taurus SHO V6 was a kick butt car compared to the regular GL, LX.
In reply to sergio:
We only really work on '86-87 GNs and T-Types. The TTA used FWD heads which makes things problematic, that precludes the use of the good aftermarket heads or 14 head bolt blocks (Stage II, aftermarket)
Sounds like a narrow field but boy howdy are there some interesting things out there. The drag racing classes are really limited, so you see things like 3800lb cars with stock heads and blocks and "stock appearing" turbos running absolutely scary intake/exhaust pressure ratios (I have heard figures like 90-100psi exhaust manifold pressure) running mid-9s in the quarter mile on narrow slicks...
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