Spend my money. Pick me a cheap but decent family truckster to replace an old Matrix.

In reply to DarkMonohue :

Don't run full steam toward a VW Routon.  Sure, if it's somehow a great deal then maybe but my personal concern is that there is too much body panel difference between it and the other Mopars.  The whole front clip is different and the rear quarter panels and tailgate are different.  

So, if your Dodge or Chrysler van were to get into a minor accident like a busted plastic front bumper cover or a dented tailgate you have millions to choose from to get a replacement used part via junkyard.  Highly likely to even find that part in the proper color too.  

If a Routon gets the same minor damage then no swap-ability from Dodge or Chrysler.  Can only get the part from another somewhat rare Routon.  

Since the Venture has been mentioned a few times and you also seem to care about your partner and kiddo, y'know, living... watch this crash test and then stay very far away from GM U-body vans.

John Welsh said:

Don't run full steam toward a VW Routon.  Sure, if it's somehow a great deal then maybe...

There is no danger of running full steam toward anything. My obscure daily driver and pickup are worth the hassle because they are interesting and have the advantage of enthusiast communities to help with parts.  Doubtful that applies to something like a Toureg or, say, a Saab 9-7x.

Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:

Since the Venture has been mentioned a few times and you also seem to care about your partner and kiddo, y'know, living... watch this crash test and then stay very far away from GM U-body vans.

My bias is showing here, but I'm inclined to skip the video and just stay far away from GM, period.

I'd suggest checking out anything made by Mazda. Maybe the CX5 or maybe 7 or 9 if you want bigger. It is consistently rated as the most fun to drive and The awd system is supposed to be quite good. Reliable and fun to drive with rather nice interiors and good suspension

In reply to amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) :

CX5 and CX9 are easy to recommend and have a strong reputation. 

The CX7, however, has a poor reputation but within that bad reputation is one version highly recommended.   The deep answers are in this thread.  The short answer is 2.3t and awd is a weak motor and a weak trans where weak means unreliable.  In the later years of 2010 and newer the base version offered a 2.5L and only fwd which solved both of the weaknesses.  

You guys are amazing. That's gold. And them CXs are just about the only SUV that I look at and think, "damn, but that's a handsome automobile".

And they're not rare. That's a nice attribute. 

In defense of some earlier comments about Mazda being a "3rd tier" automaker, when I went new car shopping in 2018 I test drove a bunch of other cars in the same category as the Mazda3 that I eventually bought.  The Mazda was as nice or nicer in every initial quality attribute, compared to Honda, Chevrolet, Toyota, etc. 

Also, the earlier CX5 was essentially a 3 with a lift kit.  IIRC the interior room was about the same.  The newest gen of CX5 might be a bit larger, though, and obviously the CX7 (discontinued) and CX9 are larger.  I always thought the CX7 was a bit awkward looking, but the 9 is damn handsome, and supposedly drives pretty great.  It is about the smallest of that category of CUV, though, if memory serves. 

I'm a little disappointed we've neglected the Korean van twins. Sedonna and Entourage. There's also the Rondo, the Elantra Touring wagon (2010-2011). Those last two are older platforms but their reliability and usefulness is up there.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/146fc8e9-2f59-46af-8ce9-f6b1c05b8e99/

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/3194cdb3-d2a8-4301-aef7-95536635a109/

Bob, the Kia van got it's well deserved high praise early in this thread.   

But, good addition with the Rondo which is generally a Kia Optima stretched tall. 

The Elantra Touring could easily be considered a Toyota Matrix made by Hyundai (which is a pretty good thing.)

mtn said:

I'd go with a Kia Sedona. Hell, I did go with a Kia Sedona. But any minivan, unless you need to go offroad or tow. And even if you do need to tow, they're not half bad for lighter loads. 

 

We recently used my MIL's Lexus RX for a weekend, and my mom's Honda Passport (new one) for a day. We were dying for the sliding doors in no time. The space is unmatched by anything short of a Suburban. If you have a child under the age of 5, they're just the best tool for the job. Not the only tool, but the best tool.

I'm certainly open to a good Korean van. The Rondo and Elantra Touring don't look like they'd add enough space to make the switch worthwhile. 

It's a genuine pity we never got the Optima estate.

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/kia/17-crdi-isg-3-5dr/first-drive

In reply to DarkMonohue :

If you get the chance, look at the Touring. It's a lot larger than you think. 

bobzilla said:

If you get the chance, look at the Touring. It's a lot larger than you think. 

Thanks, Bob, I'll keep that in mind.

In reply to DarkMonohue :

When I had the ND and had some warranty work they gave me a new CX9 as a loaner. It was plenty nice and comfortable. I quite enjoyed it for that week.

Swing and a miss today. A coworker has a 2008 Mazda5 that is surplus to requirements. He won't sell it to me because it's kind of a turd. Evidently it's been neglected, infected, and rejected, smells simultaneously like mice and dogs, has been damaged by both, and is plagued with electrical issues stemming at least partially from intermittent opens within some fairly expensive components. 

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...?

malibuguy said:

I bought a 06 Highlander 3.3 AWD Limited not too long after we had our daughter. 

Plenty of power, I have the exhaust set up just right where I often trade optimal MPG for THE NOISE.  I still average 21mpg in mixed driving. 

We were hoping for that when we bought my wife's. Unfortunately, 30K miles (bought at 140K) and 6 grand in repairs later, it still only gets 17 mpg around town, 17 mpg on the hwy, and... you guessed it... 17 mpg mixed driving. So much for Toyotas reputations. Should a known that was only for them other folks. 'course we only bought the FWD. Maybe all the extra parasitic losses, and drag from the extra height/larger more aggressive tires helps it do better

DarkMonohue said:

In reply to John Welsh :

John, you're an absolute wealth of information. Many thanks.  I might actually get away with that if I discreetly peel the Taurus nameplates off before I present it to my wife.

I , too, want to thank John for that info. I did not know the taurus X existed. I think a lot of folks would like one, if ya peeled the nameplate off!

I went into it looking for a minivan because it's the best form factor for my family. Just yes. 
Thought process

If you have $10k-ish, get a 2017 Dodge Grand Caravan (look for one with all the bells and whistles-- note if there are any blank buttons on the wheel/stereo). 
 

That's it, read the whole thread for the detailed reasons why everything else got ruled out:

Kia (expensive, untested)

Toyota: 2x price

Honda: 1.5x price, about as unreliable as Dodge

Chevy: GM, also too old by now, same with Ford

Nissan: bad trans at100k miles

Other years (older AND newer) of Dodge/Chrysler/VW: horribly unreliable

In reply to 03Panther :

Not sure how to explain your experience. As they say, YMMV. You did start with an example that already had 140k of someone else's miles on it, coupled with $6k of repairs that, if you didn't do yourself, are susceptible to human error.

Anecdotally, my understanding is that some or most Toyota products do not achieve the rated MPG figures when subjected to real world driving conditions. It seems likely they've become very good at calibrating them to run efficiently under test conditions but not impose the same tune when driven on the street.  Wild guesswork there, admittedly, but either way it's hardly a deal breaker for me.

Also anecdotally, it seems that Toyota QDR may have slipped from, say, 2002 to 2007 or so.  Totally anecdotal and I wouldn't take it to the bank.  I'm not a fanboy, but I generally trust them more than most to build products that will work for me, and that I can repair or maintain with my existing skillset and resources.  That's pretty important.  An $8000 Toyota that needs work may be cheaper for me in the long run than a $5000 Audi that needs similar repairs.

Some personal experience that I don't know if I mentioned:

Best tank from our recent road trip in the Mazda 5 was 31, which was achieved twice on the trip.

Factor in the weight of the four of us (approximately 500 pounds) and a few hundred pounds of stuff, plus the fact that I drive at 75 to 80+ on the highway, and that's pretty good. 

It's definitely not a "premium" car, but that's all about perspective. The previous Sienna was a well worn base model with manual sliding doors. The other street cars in the current fleet are a 2004 lancer and a 1988 Silverado. For us, a "nice car" means it has air-conditioning, cruise control, and power windows. 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

Some personal experience that I don't know if I mentioned:

Best tank from our recent road trip in the Mazda 5 was 31, which was achieved twice on the trip.

Factor in the weight of the four of us (approximately 500 pounds) and a few hundred pounds of stuff, plus the fact that I drive at 75 to 80+ on the highway, and that's pretty good. 

It's definitely not a "premium" car, but that's all about perspective. The previous Sienna was a well worn base model with manual sliding doors. The other street cars in the current fleet are a 2004 lancer and a 1988 Silverado. For us, a "nice car" means it has air-conditioning, cruise control, and power windows. 

Fair points.  And "nice" is relative.  I certainly don't want a vehicle that is patently VE'd to the point that it's a miserable place to be (hence my bias against many GM products). 

Hell, we're talking about secondhand minivans here.  Odds are my kid will throw up in it more than once.  And odds are he won't be the first. 

Let's say I'm looking for the nicest vehicle that serves our needs, is reliable enough that I don't resent it, and can be procured without the predatory "assistance" of a loanshark or some other 24k scum-plated, turd-gargling oxygen thief.

Not looking to beat a dead horse here, but I just spent $10,500 on a 4 year old minivan with leather (easy to clean), factory remote start, heated steering wheel, heated seats, heated second row seats, 283 hp, enough rear seat height to sit up in as an adult, power doors and hatch, and all seats fold flat for carrying big things. Reliability for drivetrain is decent, all the other stuff is going to turn manual before long, of course. 
And that's my last plug for a minivan I swore I would never buy. 

P3PPY said:

Not looking to beat a dead horse here, but...

Hey, no problem. That's what we are here for.  We have kind of cycled through a bunch of different approaches, everybody's offered their thoughts, and others have validated or disputed them according to their own experience.  The big takeaway from all these contributions is that there an an awful lot of entirely viable ways to truck one's family around for reasonable money.  It's all a compromise, but real life is.

Sooner or later, the right vehicle will find me.  It always finds me.  The trick is in recognizing it and being ready to jump when it does.

DarkMonohue said:

Sooner or later, the right vehicle will find me.  It always finds me.  The trick is in recognizing it and being ready to jump when it does.

Well, I am ready to jump any old time. We may be getting closer.  I'm hoping for a phone call shortly from the seller of this 5:

https://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/d/eugene-2009-mazda/7512840435.html

Not incredibly cherry, but advertised as a one-owner vehicle, for whatever that is worth. I'm not certain it's been meticulously maintained. I kind of like the fact that it is represented dirty, warts and all. Honesty counts. It may be a little overpriced. We'll see. Thoughts are welcome.

There's also this Grand Caravan (ladies, please, I'm taken!) that appears to be reasonably priced:

https://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/d/eugene-2016-dodge-grand-caravan/7504975310.html

Reports to follow if anything develops. 

We went out yesterday and drove the 5 from the CL ad above. It will need tires soonish and the suspension makes some groaning noises that are apparently par for the course on that platform. There are plenty of cosmetic flaws typical of a vehicle of that age and mileage. Other than that, it drove great, and everything works, so we made an offer with those points in mind, and the seller accepted. Hopefully the credit union can get us in early this week to take care of business.

Many thanks for everyone's input. I'm really looking forward to this one.