pres589 wrote: How are you going to control injection on a direct-injected F/R2? There's a timing aspect that a lot of aftermarket ECU's don't do, correct?
There's a bunch of aftermarket ECUs that DO do it as well, i wouldn't really consider it an issue.
The catch seems to be that the old R2 had its injection in the head, not the block, making the F2 head a problem.
The new one may be different. More research necessary.
Thinking a direct injected FE3 stroker could be fun for boost.
Swank Force One wrote:pres589 wrote: How are you going to control injection on a direct-injected F/R2? There's a timing aspect that a lot of aftermarket ECU's don't do, correct?There's a bunch of aftermarket ECUs that DO do it as well, i wouldn't really consider it an issue. The catch seems to be that the old R2 had its injection in the head, not the block, making the F2 head a problem. The new one may be different. More research necessary. Thinking a direct injected FE3 stroker could be fun for boost.
If you find an aftermarket ECU that can handle DI, you may want to post it. I have seen all of one supplumental box that can just run the injectors, but that was it. And that's only half of the hardware problem.
alfadriver wrote:Swank Force One wrote:If you find an aftermarket ECU that can handle DI, you may want to post it. I have seen all of one supplumental box that can just run the injectors, but that was it. And that's only half of the hardware problem.pres589 wrote: How are you going to control injection on a direct-injected F/R2? There's a timing aspect that a lot of aftermarket ECU's don't do, correct?There's a bunch of aftermarket ECUs that DO do it as well, i wouldn't really consider it an issue. The catch seems to be that the old R2 had its injection in the head, not the block, making the F2 head a problem. The new one may be different. More research necessary. Thinking a direct injected FE3 stroker could be fun for boost.
Yeah, the pump would be an issue as well.
As for the ECU, there's offerings from Vi-pec, Hydra, Syvecs, etc...
In reply to Swank Force One:
Just looked at the three of those, and only Syvecs appears to sell a product that claims to run direct injection. Neither the hydra nor ViPec claim they can run DI. Remember, the injectors are unique- they are not standard 12V injectors, but require a special driver and signal.
And the Syvecs one cost 2600 BP. Somewhere north of $3500.
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Just looked at the three of those, and only Syvecs appears to sell a product that claims to run direct injection. Neither the hydra nor ViPec claim they can run DI. Remember, the injectors are unique- they are not standard 12V injectors, but require a special driver and signal. And the Syvecs one cost 2600 BP. Somewhere north of $3500.
There's an FR-S/BRZ or few running Hydra PNP.
Vi-pec88 has been run on the audi 4.2 DI V8.
$3500 doesn't sound terrible for something as powerful as the Syvecs is, quite honestly. I have about that in the management/ignition setup on the Escort.
Adaptronic 1280 will do it with an add-on board as well.
Add-on boxes are fine.
But the reality is 1) i probably won't ever get around to doing this, as starting with the gas motor will yield more power than a Miata will know what to do with anyways and 2) by the time i do maybe get around to this, there will be other options. 
I really just bumped the thread because i figured out the potential answer to the question i badly formed 9 months ago.
I wonder if there's any OEM direct injection four that has a hackable ECU from the factory that would be a better platform to play with.
I don't think you're in for an easy time for what you're talking about attempting.
pres589 wrote: I wonder if there's any OEM direct injection four that has a hackable ECU from the factory that would be a better platform to play with. I don't think you're in for an easy time for what you're talking about attempting.
Lol, like... the DISI to start with? Yeah.
Swank Force One wrote:Knurled wrote: ANCIENT THRED OMGCan't say i don't refrain from jumping to conclusions.
That was an edit. I crafted a response to one post, that was near-identical to a response I made nine months ago to the same post.
Regarding DI-ing a gas engine with diesel bits - I think you're looking at it like a cat looks at your finger when you point. The part that makes the power isn't the fact that it is direct injected, the fact that it is direct injected allows them to do wild things with stratified charge, which requires properly engineered piston and chamber designs (redundant, the piston is the bottom of the chamber).
Didn't people put gas heads on the Oldsmobile 350 diesels and make stout motors out of them?
Appleseed wrote: Didn't people put gas heads on the Oldsmobile 350 diesels and make stout motors out of them?
Yes and if my memory is correct the Olds Drag Racing block was based on the diesel block
Kenny_McCormic wrote: I have heard of this being done when the Olds 350 V8 Diesel was common.
the 350 Olds diesel block is the one to use if you just gotta have a 500 cubic inch "Rocket" motor..
In reply to Appleseed:
Yeah, with some custom machining of the block to remove the stand for the distributor pump, which I imagine could be done in a back yard with a grinder if you wanted to.
The obvious answer to this thread is to combine an Olds 350 and a Miata. With turbo boost.
Swank Force One wrote:peter wrote: How fast can you spin an unmodified diesel bottom end? I'm not sure what these particular motors were built for, but I'd wager you'd want more than 4k rpm in your gas frankenmotor...Small diesels often aren't RPM limited by their bottom ends. But that's certainly something to wonder about. The R2 diesel (block i'd want) makes peak HP at 4500rpms, which is really only 1700rpms lower than the factory redline of my gas equivalent engine. At 23:1 compression, i can't imagine the bottom end being less tolerant of abuse than the 7.8:1 gas equivalent.
The problem is mass. Those full-skirted diesel pistons weigh a lot and the rods don't like yanking them around at high rpm. So you're still rpm-limited. they could probably handle insane amounts of boost, though, even at 13:1 with the gasoline head.
NGTD wrote:Appleseed wrote: Didn't people put gas heads on the Oldsmobile 350 diesels and make stout motors out of them?Yes and if my memory is correct the Olds Drag Racing block was based on the diesel block
The DRCE or something else?
The DRCE was a small block Chevy that was throughly re-engineered to de-Chevy it.
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