The way everyone was jumping in this kid and calling him an idiot at first, i wa going to ask if you all forgot your passwords to Miata.net. 
The way everyone was jumping in this kid and calling him an idiot at first, i wa going to ask if you all forgot your passwords to Miata.net.
hmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder if I can persuade the Insurance company to sell me the engine for cheap 
NOHOME wrote: I would like to know what this even has to do with the FRS? "Car Crash Involves telephone pole" would have pretty much summed it up. Is this meant to stir up controversy about the FRS having unsafe handling characteristics?
People have this notion that automakers have been producing nothing but beige FWD econoboxes for the last umpteen years, so there's a whole generation of kids who have no idea how to handle a proper RWD sports car. To those people, this crash is the inevitable result, and it will undoubtedly make them feel superior.
Of course, those people are forgetting the Mustangs, Camaros, 240SXs, Miatas, S2000s, RX-8s, 350Zs, and now-cheap C5 'Vettes that get wrapped around poles at an alarming rate by young people who don't know what they're doing.
RWD isn't new. Neither are dumbasses. And I don't know what one has to do with the other.
Type Q wrote: The way everyone was jumping in this kid and calling him an idiot at first, i wa going to ask if you all forgot your passwords to Miata.net.
He isn't an idiot because he wrecked. He is an idiot for blathering on about it in 20k words that could easily be distilled to "oops".
steronz wrote:NOHOME wrote: I would like to know what this even has to do with the FRS? "Car Crash Involves telephone pole" would have pretty much summed it up. Is this meant to stir up controversy about the FRS having unsafe handling characteristics?People have this notion that automakers have been producing nothing but beige FWD econoboxes for the last umpteen years, so there's a whole generation of kids who have no idea how to handle a proper RWD sports car. To those people, this crash is the inevitable result, and it will undoubtedly make them feel superior. Of course, those people are forgetting the Mustangs, Camaros, 240SXs, Miatas, S2000s, RX-8s, 350Zs, and now-cheap C5 'Vettes that get wrapped around poles at an alarming rate by young people who don't know what they're doing. RWD isn't new. Neither are dumbasses. And I don't know what one has to do with the other.
I am going to disagree with there. Unless their parents are rich enough to buy them a new car.. the kids are going to be running around on used FWD cars because that is what is out there.. especially if they are JDMYO! fanbois. Even if they are not.. the percentage of FWD to RWD cars is very high.. to the point where it is rare to see a RWD car on my commute to work
Osterkraut wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Quite the drama queen ain't he? That whole thing could be reduced down to "DOH! I berkeleyed up and hit a pole with my FR-S".I enjoyed the subtle blaming of RWD.
That was a nice touch.
RWD is dangerous, it should be banned from all cars.
iceracer wrote: Ah the difference when going from an understeering FWD car to an oversteering RWD car with little experience.
I've been bitten by that going from an AWD car to a RWD one. 
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:DaveEstey wrote:I've seen a Prius hustled through Deal's Gap. It was SHOCKINGLY quick.4cylndrfury wrote:The battery doesn't weigh anything close to that. We've taken our Prius to AutoX for ghits and shiggles and it was surprisingly fun. Low grip for sure but the electric motor's torque coming out of tighter elements was nice. Kid was an idiot, and it has nothing to do with the tires.Lesley wrote: Not too many Priuses crashing into poles far as I know...600lbs of toxic battery + eleven horsepower = full time traction control
You should see the things I can do in my Insight, sure it has a pathetic 85hp, but it only weighs 1800lbs. I've surprised more than a few people in the twisties with it.
Hal wrote:NOHOME wrote: I forsee a lot more of this happening. I have played around a bit with the TC off and as I mentioned in my earlier review"The girl can wag her tail". There is a generation of drivers out there that have never driven a RWD car. The OP shows experience with understeering cars and seems to know what to do with them. The same instinctual rules do not apply to RWD and there is a learning curve.I agree. The generation that the FRS/BRZ would appeal to the most is the generation that probably has never driven anything but FWD. Based on my experiences in going from RWD to FWD with my Focus I would say that this may be a common occurrence. Fortunately my mistakes were made in venues where there was plenty of room for a nice little spin without hitting anything.
I hope it doesn't become too common, or else the insurance rates on these cars will go through the roof. 
Prior to my 240SX (pictures in the icon the left) I had only had experience driving RWD vehicles occasionally. I had owned 4 vehicles that were all FWD prior the 240.
The VERY FIRST THING I did after buying that car was take it to an empty lot and try my hardest to drift it like Ken Block. Then I did some burn-outs, then I did some donuts, and then I tried drifting some more.
And you know what? I drove that car for almost 2 years in some horrible conditions and never left the road. I remember one morning right after finals we had a huge blizzard and I spun the car 3 times on the 20 mile drive home, but never left the road.
You guys know there has been a RWD car of approximately the same size and power/weight ratio available for the past two decades, right? 
It's got nothing to do with entitlement or anything else, it's just a whoopsie with a new car. Kid poked at the boundaries in what he thought was a safe environment, and it wasn't.
The only reason this is news is because it's a Toyobaru. The second one to get banged up won't be noticed.
A friend of mine was in line to get a WRX, back when the arrival of the WRX was huge news in North America. I offered to get him the license plate SVA 2B
I spent my formative driving years in the snow with an Oldsmobile Cutlass aeroback. Chevy 305 and all-season tires. Lots of quality sideways time. Got a chance to do the same (later) with AWD and FWD cars. Just like any kid with access to a car will do.
Keith wrote: I spent my formative driving years in the snow with an Oldsmobile Cutlass aeroback. Chevy 305 and all-season tires. Lots of quality sideways time. Got a chance to do the same (later) with AWD and FWD cars. Just like any kid with access to a car will do.
My "Formative" drifting experience was with Ford LTD station wagons! Me and a few snow-banks got to be good friends.
Unsafe at any speed!
Osterkraut wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Quite the drama queen ain't he? That whole thing could be reduced down to "DOH! I berkeleyed up and hit a pole with my FR-S".I enjoyed the subtle blaming of RWD.
Seriously, who didn't see that coming? Happened when the s2000 came out too.
If you want an FR-S that has the understeer/oversteer balance set up right, buy it now. If the MR2s were any indication, Toyota is going to dial it back to an understeer machine after a couple more incidents like this...
aussiesmg wrote: Props for stepping up and taking it on the chin though
Indeed.
Although, +1 for going to autocrosses and rallycrosses to learn how to drive your damn car.
Duke wrote: Sounds like snap-back oversteer to me. Agreed, not blaming the car, but it could easily have been too much countersteering coupled with failure to catch the return swing.
He countersteered but lifted, which allowed the rear tires to grab, sending him the other way.
Bad bad bad. When sliding, keep on the throttle until you and your front tires are pointed where you want to go. Lifting is death.
JohnyHachi6 wrote: If you want an FR-S that has the understeer/oversteer balance set up right, buy it now. If the MR2s were any indication, Toyota is going to dial it back to an understeer machine after a couple more incidents like this...
Don't forget the RX-7s. The first two years were sweet handling machines. Starting in 1981 they got more and more boring.
Strizzo wrote:Osterkraut wrote:Seriously, who didn't see that coming? Happened when the s2000 came out too.Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Quite the drama queen ain't he? That whole thing could be reduced down to "DOH! I berkeleyed up and hit a pole with my FR-S".I enjoyed the subtle blaming of RWD.
Turns traction nannies off. Crashes. Oh noes, why aren't there nannies?!? RWD needs banned!
I owned several RWD cars before I turned 24. I had:
1983 280zx
1985 RX7
1988 XR4Ti
1995 Z28
I never wrecked one, but there was plenty of hoonage
I'm an old man now (29) and I don't really do much in the way of hoonage with the Z06.
nderwater wrote: I'd happily donate a few bucks to get this guy to an autocross. Anyone else chip in?
I'm in.
JohnyHachi6 wrote: If you want an FR-S that has the understeer/oversteer balance set up right, buy it now. If the MR2s were any indication, Toyota is going to dial it back to an understeer machine after a couple more incidents like this...
According to EVO, the Subaru version is more prone to understeer. The Toyota has stiffer rear springs and softer fronts, and we all know what that's going to do. It would be interesting to know if the European rates were any different than the US ones. Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.
DuctTape&Bondo wrote:Strizzo wrote:Turns traction nannies off. Crashes. Oh noes, why aren't there nannies?!? RWD needs banned!Osterkraut wrote:Seriously, who didn't see that coming? Happened when the s2000 came out too.Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Quite the drama queen ain't he? That whole thing could be reduced down to "DOH! I berkeleyed up and hit a pole with my FR-S".I enjoyed the subtle blaming of RWD.
...but who said that? The kid owned up. He said his lack of experience with RWD caused the wreck, not RWD itself. He drove it like FWD, but the end that broke loose wasn't the one he was expecting.
My first wreck was a pretty good one, also in my first RWD car. I stomped on it and got caught out in a way I wasn't expecting. Pretty much the same thing happened as this story, though in my case, I found a deep ditch instead of a telephone pole.
surprisingly, I've twice spun 360's in cars on the street. Both times were FWD ('87 integra). Never had a RWD car backwards except for on the rallycross course. Amazingly, I've never even spun the GT6, even when doing some questionable driving during college that ended me up in some trees, haha....
Am I the only one who thinks its funny that he feels so bad about "letting down the FR-S community" and all that jazz? I mean, if I wreck my e30, or my WRX, you can bet your ass that I don't care the slightest bit about "letting down the BMWCCA or NASIOC or whatever." If I wreck a car, the only thing I'm letting down is my freaking wallet. People on web forums can kiss my arse unless they're paying for my car, lol.
I can see this event being the beginning of a legend.
"Man those FR-S handled so driftastically that people were pretty much crashing them on the way home from the dealerships!" and "You have to be Ken Block to drive this thing without traction control!"
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