Things automotive engineers should be nut kicked for.

Alternator on anything with an F2T in it. Believe it books for 3-4 hours. You can remove all the bolts holding it on in about 5 minutes from top side. Buttttt... you can't fish the berkeleyer out anywhere.

Easy on my car, because i don't have an exhaust and i just remove the oil filter at the same time. On more "intact" cars? Have fun.

What about those newer Malibus that have like... 200 steps to replace a headlight bulb?

Yeah, this.

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/2008-2012-GM-Chevrolet-Malibu-Headlight-Bulbs-Replacement-Guide/

berkeley that.

Swank Force One wrote: Alternator on anything with an F2T in it. Believe it books for 3-4 hours. You can remove all the bolts holding it on in about 5 minutes from top side. Buttttt... you can't fish the berkeleyer out anywhere.

You can't turn the steering all the way to the right, drop the alternator onto the tie rod, then turn the steering all the way to the left?

I remember doing that on regular F2 engined cars. I'd only ever seen one F2T engined anything, and she only had it for maybe three months.

On the current Ford Focus, I am told that to replace a heater core you must first purchase an assembly consisting of a housing with all the blend valves, the heater core and the AC evaporator. So you must open the AC system. Then you must remove the dash. That's typical these days, but to get the dash out of the car you must REMOVE THE DOOR!

Vracer111 wrote: The ones who designed the 4th gen Camaro... specifically the front shock mounting. Seriously, one type of fastener was not good enough so you designed a part that uses SAE, Metric, and Torx? [NINJA EDIT]...but at least y'all thought about if transmission ever needed work done on it and provided directions on dropping the whole front subframe with suspension, engine, and transmission out as one unit since apparently that is the easiest way to get the transmission out or change the spark plugs - Yep everybody has a lift in their garage.

Jack up car, drop K-member/suspension/engine/trans as a unit, pick up rest of car with engine hoist if you don't have enough clearance to get that stuff out from under the car.

You're dead on about the shock mounting bolts. The torx bolt on the driver side that requires removal of the master cylinder for access is my favorite. Replacing it with a normal hex bolt allows for access with an open end wrench. I genuinely can't understand that move.

In reply to Will:

I did the engine in my RX-7 that way because I didn't have access to a cherrypicker. Get car on highest jackstands I could use, drop drivetrain with a service cradle (a 2x4 and a come-along would have worked better), drag out from underneath.

Knurled wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Alternator on anything with an F2T in it. Believe it books for 3-4 hours. You can remove all the bolts holding it on in about 5 minutes from top side. Buttttt... you can't fish the berkeleyer out anywhere.

You can't turn the steering all the way to the right, drop the alternator onto the tie rod, then turn the steering all the way to the left? I remember doing that on regular F2 engined cars. I'd only ever seen one F2T engined anything, and she only had it for maybe three months.

F2t sits about an inch farther back to the firewall. Fun fact, huh?

Lemme see. Changing plugs on a G-body with a 305 requires the headers to be removed (plugs underneath headers + no room to work = fun). The guy who decided that each time your 1MZ blew an O2 sensor (and you will) that you had to pull the motor to replace it. Plastisol coating that caused your car to rust from the inside out. The Fiero's cooling lines. Take your pick.

In reply to Swank Force One:

I take it that unbolting the engine mount and ratchet-strapping the engine forward is also not an option.

I remember doing a bunch of Saturn intake manifolds that way

It seems like 90% of "bad engineering" is more down to "priorities at time of design/production were different than mine are now." Like when an engine designed 30 years earlier is put in a chassis designed 10 years earlier and now you need to run catalysts and the engineers from 30 and 10 years earlier didn't have very good crystal balls so the result is you have to drop the exhaust to change the oil filter.

Pontiac eventually fixed that by no longer making Pontiac engines.

However the 3.6 GM engine has no excuse. There are some chassis with spin-on filters where access to the filter is impossible from below and nearly impossible from above. And some 3.6s have cartridge filters up top. Why don't they ALL have cartridge filters?

ebonyandivory wrote: Lots of nut-kick negativity here (and with good reason) but I'd like to give nut-props to the designer of the Suzuki Samurai.

+1. Same goes for Metro/Swifts. Beautiful to work on. G13B has hydraulic lifters on an OHC engine. You can lift the engine by yourself. Nice.

Appleseed wrote:

stuart in mn wrote: Oh goodie, another engineer bashing thread.

Well...somebody designed this E36 M3.

yeah... a DESIGNER designed it. The engineer gave the designer the specs/datasheets. this high, this wide, this low. the designer then berkeleys it all up by completely not understanding what he/she is asked to do...

Knurled wrote:

bruceman wrote: All those exhaust system engenears who insist on steel bolts and flanges on a stainless steel exhaust system!

That is because stainless bolts gall like a sonofabitch and they are also pretty brittle. Stainless steel is not a material for anything structural.

and they are too cheap to use properly coated steel boats. Get joo some fluorokoted bolts...

One time use aluminum bolts. Are you really saving enough weight to justify the cost? Are you saving enough fuel to justify the extra material needed to replace the bolts you just threw out? Oh wait, I was supposed to recycle those.

Stainless not structural? The BUDD company disagrees.

In reply to wheelsmithy:

I had a friend who used to work at a GM dealer and he's always said when someone came in and purchased a 3cyl geo engine, they wouldnt tell him to come to the back and load it with a fork lift they would just carry it to the parts counter and give it to him.

I really dont think cars are that bad to work on nowadays, sure some jobs are a huge PITA but it was like that back in the day to and its not really the norm, I think alot of things are getting easier to work on, especially normal maintenance stuff.

I just look at the GEN 1 and 2 SBC vs Gen 3 and up. Gaskets are SOOO much better, and easier to install. Dont have to pull oil pan to replace front timing cover, dry intake manifold, reuseable gsakets, and almost all the bolts have pilots so cross threaded bolts are way less common.

Then you see stuff like have to R&R engine to replace rack on a Tundra and they fail all the time, especially when they are converted to bro dozers, and you think damn engineers but im sure they built dumb E36 M3 back in the day to, and i think this stuff is the exception not the rule.

4th gen F-body as others have said. Every iteration of that car 3.4, 3.8, LT1, LS1, LT4, etc. Let's put our distributor right under the water pump!

Oil filter placement on Honda/Acura K20 cars. If you love oil all over the subframe and burnt forearms these are the cars for you.

Just GM X-motors. Anything on them.

Oil filter placement on 4 wheel steering Prelude SH models.

4th gen f-body lower A-arm bolts.

I do have praise for CD5 accord models. Easiest thing I've worked on in a long time.

I work with engineers on a daily basis, network engineers, system engineers, software engineers, etc. I get to make their life hell.

4th gens could be a lot worse. Imagine if they didn't have the LT1. You need a new distributor cap, we gotta drop your engine to change it.

Remember, in this era, GM distributor caps seemed to have a life of 12 weeks or 12,000 blocks, whichever came first. The LT1 setup was a genuine improvement as long as you didn't get it wet.

Signature 600 and isx13/15 fuel filter placement. The space for the isx13/15 filter to come out is just the right size for you to have to tip the filter (holding about three quarts of diesel) on its side to slide it out. The signature 600 had the same issue with the fuel filter being larger than the oil filter and needing to come out the bottom through assorted hoses, lines and harnesses after removing the electrical connector off the bottom. The isx15 is worse when in an international frame as they are even narrower than the similar paccar frames. Argghh.

Edit: cummins at least knew you were going to put an empty filter back on it so they have a keyed fuel primer which is awesome UNTIL it doesn't work or you can hear it run but it doesn't put out enough fuel to start the truck.

DirtyBird222 wrote: 4th gen f-body lower A-arm bolts.

Assuming you mean the rear bolt in each arm, those are only bad until you realize you have to index the tab for the bolt to come out all the way.

Replacing or hooking up the MAP sensor in an LS1 F-body is a bit of a trick.

Will wrote:

DirtyBird222 wrote: 4th gen f-body lower A-arm bolts.

Assuming you mean the rear bolt in each arm, those are only bad until you realize you have to index the tab for the bolt to come out all the way. Replacing or hooking up the MAP sensor in an LS1 F-body is a bit of a trick.

Yesthis is the one I'm talking about. Passenger side to be specific. BFH mod was needed

I just replaced the radiator and hoses on a '96 vulcan taurus. everything about that was a pain in the but thole.

The guy or gal that decided that regular passenger cars needed V rated tires.

Knurled wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: I take it that unbolting the engine mount and ratchet-strapping the engine forward is also not an option. I remember doing a bunch of Saturn intake manifolds that way It seems like 90% of "bad engineering" is more down to "priorities at time of design/production were different than mine are now." Like when an engine designed 30 years earlier is put in a chassis designed 10 years earlier and now you need to run catalysts and the engineers from 30 and 10 years earlier didn't have very good crystal balls so the result is you have to drop the exhaust to change the oil filter. Pontiac eventually fixed that by no longer making Pontiac engines. However the 3.6 GM engine has no excuse. There are some chassis with spin-on filters where access to the filter is impossible from below and nearly impossible from above. And some 3.6s have cartridge filters up top. Why don't they ALL have cartridge filters?

the 3.6 with the cartridge filter is in a rwd platform wear there was no way to mount the canister. I guess they figure you can just let the car cool down before you stuff your arm in between the radiator and exhaust manifold!. The newest cadilac suv using the 3.6 actually doesnt have the motor mount directly under it like the rest of them. much easier to service!

Spoolpigeon wrote: I'll give my kick to the GM engeneer who placed the control arm bolts on my malibu. To remove these bolts, you have to lift the engine and trans to remove the motor mounts so you can back the bolt out of the arm. Had the bolt been flipped 180°, you could pull the bolts out with nothing in the way.

There is an easy button for this. Cut the bolt with a wizzer and go get new bolt. I think I had to get a bolt that was five mm shorter but it still went through the nut all the way. I just did them on my daughters car. Was a half hour per side. New grade eight bolts were less than $5

My nut kick goes to the person that designed the brackett that holds the transfer case in my x type to the back side of the engine block. You can not get to the bolts unless you remove the motor due to the cats being bolted directly to the exhaust manifold. The solution is to heat the Brackett in a line with a brazing torch and pry the Brackett sideays so it cracks on the now brittle line. Then you V grind the broken Brackett pieces. I then install the transfer case and installed the Brackett piece that I snapped off and welded it back to the piece still bolted to the car.