Greetings,
We are looking to improve a logistical problem for our racing team. In the end, we have a limited number of available drivers to tow our cars to the track and it would greatly ease the situation if i could tow two cars at once. I have come up with a few options, but may have overlooked something potentially easier and/or cheaper.
As far as i can tell, my options are:
- Longer enclosed trailer, with some towing vehicle with more capability than our current tow vehicle (F150)
- Long open trailer (Kaufman in NC is who I've found so far), again with an upgraded tow vehicle
Otherwise, I am relatively new to towing and do not have a CDL etc so stackers etc are out. We think a fifth wheel/gooseneck (Same thing?) is a bot easier as it gets longer.
What we have now is an 18 foot enclosed trailer (Look) and the F150.
My "plan" was to use the enclosed railer and F150 to transport the paddock, tools, etc and then haul two of our cars to the track with the new solution.
Primary concerns would be cost, easier to tow the better, and flexibility.
I don't see any rental options, but I could be wrong.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
BTW the family CFO has proposed the solution to be to get another teammate to tow it, lol.
Thanks again
Bill
Just to address some of the contradictions...
Primary concerns are cost but yet you are throwing around the idea of a 2-car enclosed trailer as well as a new tow vehicle which will be bigger than F150, so likely F350.
Are these realistic to your budget? If yes, then this would be my answer.
Undisclosed:
John Welsh said:Undisclosed:
- How far do you have to haul?
- How often do you have to haul?
Also, what cars are you hauling? Two Minis will be easier than two Cadillacs.
Also, I thought toter-homes were considered RVs and not subject to CDL requirements?
For a "low-dough-show", a Uhaul tow dolly is just $50 per 24hr period. Many SUV's can handle a tow dolly. A Uhaul full car trailer is just $10 more but at 2,000 lbs just for the trailer you will need the minimum of a pickup truck to handle one of those.
AAA Membership:
Gold Package: $100 and includes 4 tows of up to 100 miles per tow.
Platinum Package: $150 and includes 4 tows of up to 100 miles per tow PLUS a 5th tow of up to 200 miles.
I have the Gold so this is $25 per tow (cheap) and I have used it in "unconventional ways" with great results. The key is to tip the driver in cash. He is the gate keeper to making the tow happen or not.
Unconventional ways:
Enterprise Commercial will rent you a F150, F250 or F350 crew cab. It may not be that cheap "per day" but it may end up being cheaper "per year" than owning the truck.
you need a ramp truck and a trailer. Clearly.
In reply to GarageHeroesInTraining :
I made a two car enclosed trailer that was much shorter than a regular two car trailer could be. The way I did it was put the front car in backwards and ramped the second car over the hood of the first. It wound up being a 28 foot trailer. That while triple axle I could safely pull with a 1/2 ton suburban.
There is a bunch of information left out. But it can be done
Two cars with one truck requires a big trailer and a big truck. You could get a 30’ or so enclosed, 5th wheel is more stable, requires a diesel 350 truck, like Jim has
Small open trailers can be pulled by smaller trucks, like Alan’s.
A tow dolly can pull a fwd car with a medium SUV like the CFO wants to drive.
You could rent a uhaul box truck and find loading bays at beginning and end of trip and put one car in the box and tow the second on the car hauler
Something like this is the easy button
https://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/tro/d/bealeton-42-foot-hallmark-eagle/6785813695.html
2 Miatas can fit in a 28' enclosed trailer.
Too many unanswered questions in this thread...
John Welsh said:Enterprise Commercial will rent you a F150, F250 or F350 crew cab. It may not be that cheap "per day" but it may end up being cheaper "per year" than owning the truck.
I rented from Enterprise to tow to the 2017 Challenge. F250 crew cab was about $700 for a Tuesday to Tuesday rental and a 2200 mile trek.
SVreX said:2 Miatas can fit in a 28' enclosed trailer.
Too many unanswered questions in this thread...
A miata and a 94 camaro can do the same, providing its a v nose trailer.
I know the OP, he’s a busy guy, here are some answers.
Cars are fairly small: s10, 76 Capri, e46, Civic. Big towing is about 6x/year. Tows are from 3-12 hours generally.
Cost is not the biggest factor, functionality is, but cost is always a concern for anyone. Think best value. They also need to bring enough stuff to support these cars and people at an endurance racing weekend
What about the stacker requires a CDL? My impression is that they aren't necessarily any heavier than a long trailer with the same capacity.
A large gooseneck enclosed trailer that can haul both cars & the track gear + a full ton dually is probably the most practical and economical.
The one in Sonic's CL link above is pretty representative. Lots of them on racingjunk...
Stackers are $$$$$...
codrus said:What about the stacker requires a CDL? My impression is that they aren't necessarily any heavier than a long trailer with the same capacity.
3 axles on a stacker are likely 7k axles = 21000 gvwr trailer. A truck required to pull it has a 10k+ gvwr. 10k+ 21k= 31k. 31k > 26k = cdl. Rules are different when your trailer breaks 10001 pound gvwr. Even if they are 5200# axles, that’s 15600 minimum(and some of those are rated at 17k because tongue weight goes on the truck), modern 1 tons including srw are rated at 10500+ gvwr. My srw crew cab long bed is the lowest rated 3500 ram at 11700. That’s why lots of trailers are “rated” 9990. There are lots of different rules but this is the basic way to explain it. Even if you are not commercial, you still are required to have a cdl for most combos that large. I studied the rules very closely when picking my rig and had to decide between buying a rig with a combined gvwr of 26000 or less, or getting a cdl. Hence why I don’t have a dually.
it’s not the empty weight. The capacity determines the license requirements.
I remember a guy that would show up at our autocross events with an RV towing an open trailer with another open trailer behind it. I did find out later his regular job was driving those double trailer rigs down the interstate.
Patrick said:codrus said:What about the stacker requires a CDL? My impression is that they aren't necessarily any heavier than a long trailer with the same capacity.
3 axles on a stacker are likely 7k axles = 21000 gvwr trailer. A truck required to pull it has a 10k+ gvwr. 10k+ 21k= 31k. 31k > 26k = cdl. Rules are different when your trailer breaks 10001 pound gvwr. Even if they are 5200# axles, that’s 15600 minimum(and some of those are rated at 17k because tongue weight goes on the truck), modern 1 tons including srw are rated at 10500+ gvwr. My srw crew cab long bed is the lowest rated 3500 ram at 11700. That’s why lots of trailers are “rated” 9990. There are lots of different rules but this is the basic way to explain it. Even if you are not commercial, you still are required to have a cdl for most combos that large. I studied the rules very closely when picking my rig and had to decide between buying a rig with a combined gvwr of 26000 or less, or getting a cdl. Hence why I don’t have a dually.
it’s not the empty weight. The capacity determines the license requirements.
True, but there are plenty of trailers that don't need a CDL but could still haul two cars. I towed 3-car wedges without a CDL, but that was many moons ago before the new DOT stuff happened several years ago.
I haven't kept up with the new DOT laws other than the rule that you no longer need a CDL for air brakes (mind blown), but it used to be that single vehicle under 26k and trailer under 15k = no CDL required. (speaking GVWR of course, not GVW). Single vehicle over 26k and trailer under 15k was Class B, single over 26k and trailer over 15k was Class A.
The question I have is... Do you have a DOT number? Are you a commercial entity? If you are, scrutiny abounds. If you are just a grassroots race team, you still need to abide by the law, but you aren't a target.
Your post makes me wonder if you used to live in CA. They have laws that might cause questions like you asked.
Here is the skinny... the law is the law and you should follow it if you don't want to be afoul of the folks who enforce it. Having said that, if you have a DOT number on your truck you are subject to scrutiny from the DOT patrols (the vans you see at weigh stations here in PA). If you don't have a DOT number, you don't. They CAN stop anyone who looks unsafe, but their target is CDL stuff. When I used to drive motorcoaches, I was supposed to stop for weigh stations, but I didn't. They know that my GVWR is highly unlikely to be overweight. They're after tractor-trailers and the guy with an F450 towing 4 cars and a DOT number on the fender.
Basically, if you have a rig that looks like the first picture below and it has a DOT number on it, you're on their radar. If it doesn't have a DOT number, they will only pull you over if you look like the second picture.
It also depends on what kind of racing we're talking about. Two land speed tankers headed to Bonneville is a lot different trailer than a couple shifter karts. I'm guessing that if a single car fits in the 18' trailer you have, we're not talking about either of those extremes.
Either way, you're talking about a LONG trailer. A gooseneck or 5th wheel hitch will significantly reduce the cost of the tow rig. If you had a 36' bumper-tow with two cars and tools, you're squarely into F450/550 territory, but a 36' gooseneck/5er could be easily done with a newer F250/ older F350.
For perspective, I towed a 32' bumper tow at 10k with an F250. It did very well, but required a good bit of correction and after 500 miles I was ready to be done. That same truck with a 40' gooseneck was easier than the 32' bumper.
Patrick said:3 axles on a stacker are likely 7k axles = 21000 gvwr trailer. A truck required to pull it has a 10k+ gvwr. 10k+ 21k= 31k. 31k > 26k = cdl. Rules are different when your trailer breaks 10001 pound gvwr. Even if they are 5200# axles, that’s 15600 minimum(and some of those are rated at 17k because tongue weight goes on the truck), modern 1 tons including srw are rated at 10500+ gvwr. My srw crew cab long bed is the lowest rated 3500 ram at 11700. That’s why lots of trailers are “rated” 9990. There are lots of different rules but this is the basic way to explain it. Even if you are not commercial, you still are required to have a cdl for most combos that large. I studied the rules very closely when picking my rig and had to decide between buying a rig with a combined gvwr of 26000 or less, or getting a cdl. Hence why I don’t have a dually.
I live in CA, so yeah, max bumper pull without a class A (not necessarily commercial, but class A) is 10K.
What I'm getting at is that to tow 2 cars end-to-end in an eclosed trailer and still have enough room for a certain amount of gear at the front, you're looking at a 30-34 foot trailer which is going to run into the same GVWR issues.
https://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/d/cleveland-2012-ford-550-rollback-jerr/6811620619.html
Something like this! One car on the bed, second on the stinger ( wheel lift). In Ohio under 26k # with hydraulic brakes does not require a CDL.
In reply to John Welsh :
How far: Last year, the farthest trip was Road Atlanta from Northeast PA, about 1,000 miles one way
How often: We race at least 5 per year but always looking for more to fit our schedule
Budget is kind of "it is what it is" and may be a multiple year acquisition or possibly rent the larger tow vehicle initially, possibly permanently.
Thanks for you responses.
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