Yeah I want to believe that the GR4 won't be a sooped-up RAV4 against all odds, but the side sills aren't helping...
Yeah I want to believe that the GR4 won't be a sooped-up RAV4 against all odds, but the side sills aren't helping...
We can at least rule out a few things from the given photo and Toyota's existing models.
Most likely (IMO) is the already-rumored Corolla Hatchback. It's proportionally correct and the crease is already there that curves down around the "vent":
The Corolla Cross and RAV4 don't seem to have enough fender real estate there to get that vent in.
Also, I totally forgot that they showed the whole thing in a teaser video in the past, albeit not in much detail...
pointofdeparture said:In reply to NOHOME :
This doesn't scream "FWD" at me:
Oddly enough, that does not move the bar for me. A 4WD shopping cart is still a shopping cart. I am stuck with a Subaru engine in my FRS, would not have considered the car had it been 4wd in the same bodywork.
I am oldschool. The two rear tires drive a sports-car. Does not make it the "best-car", just a sports-car.
pointofdeparture said:In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Unfortunately, the consensus on that one seemed to be that it's a fine car but not an enthusiast vehicle. Also the ones you can actually buy on the lot seem to be optioned up closer to $40k.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/new-cars/2021-mazda3-25-turbo-hatchback/
The Mazda3 makes power torque, you say. Yes, but this engine’s only available with a two-pedal setup.
Sigh.
But there’s a manual mode, right?
Yes, but I couldn’t get the thing to reach redline. And I tried. In fact, even the auto mode felt just lazy.
So, what do we have here? How about it’s a nicer, softer WRX. Or maybe it’s a sedate, commuter-friendly version of a Type R.
It should hit redline in sport mode. I know my CX9 does and the upcoming CX50 does.
Honestly the 4wd thing doesn't excite me. This is a cool car, but I can't see myself buying one.
I'd rather see cars filling the 'performance/sporty street car' gap in between E36 M3box and missile. The Si has done a good job of this, but its pricey, oddly slow for what it is, and... no hatch.
Now a ~200-220hp FWD corolla hatch with a torsen? That's exactly what I want.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Yep, as weird as it is to say, me too. I'm watching this with interest but the upcoming Integra seems to be more directly in line with what I would want out of a car.
Now if they put the 2.5 from the Camry in a Corolla with a 6-speed and Torsen like you suggest... *chef's kiss*
FWD vs AWD is always going to be one of those things people will disagree on 
Personally anything over 100hp is annoying with front drive unless you like constantly having to mind the throttle unless the roads are clean and dry. I had issues with tirespin on the rain up to 65mph with my front drive Volvo and it had maybe 130hp, and the best wet weather tires I could get.
Nannies help with that but I don't want assistance, I want GO. And there is a perverse pleasure in being able to effortlessly accelerate hard out of a corner in a rainstorm.
I feel pretty confident that the Toyota dealerships will ruin this as they have with the GR86. Toyota allocating 70+ % with automatic transmission lead to no availability for the manuals, which lead to huge mark ups on the few that were available.
I can only imagine the douche baggery that will happen with this thing.
Sigh...
Pete. (l33t FS) said:FWD vs AWD is always going to be one of those things people will disagree on
Personally anything over 100hp is annoying with front drive unless you like constantly having to mind the throttle unless the roads are clean and dry. I had issues with tirespin on the rain up to 65mph with my front drive Volvo and it had maybe 130hp, and the best wet weather tires I could get.
Nannies help with that but I don't want assistance, I want GO. And there is a perverse pleasure in being able to effortlessly accelerate hard out of a corner in a rainstorm.
I have no issues with 230 (?) hp in my GTI. I can spin the tires in the wet if I want to, but in general driving on any surface, I get little tire spin. The haldex-based LSD up front does its job well and it hooks up just fine out of corners in a rainstorm.
Incidentally, not on E36 M3 tires like many cars come with. I changed to BFG Comp 2 A/S literally the day after I bought the car. The ones that came on it were garbage. Even with 41k miles on them now, the Comp 2's are downright excellent in the rain (and in the dry).
NOHOME said:If it is FWD it is not a sports car.
THANK YOU !!
I'm at the point where there are so few new interesting performance vehicles put out into the world that I'm not terribly hung up on what the driven wheels are if the car is otherwise compelling.
Disagree on the "can't be a sports car if it's FWD" (Lotus Elan, Alfa GTV, etc) but to each their own. I just don't understand why people come in these threads solely to be a voice of doom and gloom when we're lucky to get anything at all aimed at our corner of the market.
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) said:douche baggery
Dang. I just called my local dealer and sent them the link. Then we talked on the phone and I told her I wanted to put a deposit down and be put on the waiting list.
She said it's not out and they don't have pricing on what it is. I said we can agree on me paying "sticker" or "sticker plus $1500 and no extra options". She put me on the "air list", you know where she writes my name down in the air with her finger?
In reply to pointofdeparture :
I hope they sell a boat load of these things and I am truly happy they exist.
I ordered a new BRZ in December because I feel the opportunity to buy cars like these is going to rapidly come to an end in the near future. However I have been on the 2022 86 forum since November and am appalled by the shenanigans that the Toyota dealerships have been pulling with the far more common GR86. I can't see any scenario where they don't do the same with this car or worse because it is "limited production".
If it's not a Corolla GR4 we riot. My only hope is that the bloat over the Yaris GR is minimized. They LOVE that thing over in the UK press.
In reply to pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) :
Totally agree. Since Toyota eliminated the ability to order, it's been a mess. It's now like what shows up I'm going to farm to the highest bidder in a lot of cases.
This car seems odd now. With the death of the rally wagon except the Golf R, It just seems like it's 3-5 years late to the party. I'm really not interested at a hot corolla cross which it looks like this is. Of course, I don't ever want to see snow again outside of business trips so I'm happy with the RWD sports car.
BoxheadTim said:In reply to Datsun310Guy :
I think a lot of the volume they're going to sell is also on how the dealers handle the sale process.
$20k market ripoff adjustment and no test drives isn't going to help, for example. Plus I think Toyota doesn't allow the dealer to order a car (at least that seemed to be the case with the new 86), they have to take their allocation.
Yep. I walked into the Ford dealership up the street from my house (to check out the Focus RS), with my helmet to see if I'd fit in one......ready to buy. But they said no test drive without a signed sales contract.
Sorry guys, I'm not agreeing to spend $40k for something I can't even start.
In reply to z31maniac :
Had exactly the same experience with a Ford dealer in NV when my 996 got totalled a few years back. They happily let me drive the Redneck RS (F150 Raptor) but the Focus RS was no bueno. Didn't like the Raptor, and they didn't get to sell me a Focus RS either.
I'm just hoping it's not a re-badged WRX or BMW 2 series gran coupe (or even X2). As that's how they do Gazoo lately.
Ha - And before you get your pitchforks out (or warm up your Fresh Prince slap)- I'm joking. It's more a commentary on how difficult the business case is these days for sports cars. If it is, as expected, a turbo, manual AWD Corolla hatch that'll be pretty rad.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:A roughly 260HP AWD hot-hatch? What's not to love? If it lists at $32K they will see a ton of them. At $40K, they will struggle.
Well, the Mazda 3 can now be had as an AWD turbo hatch, a lot closer to $30k than $40k.
Forum reaction was "meh".
no manual option no care really.... that car/brand is going through identity crisis as it tries to mimic volvo rebirth but from a Japanese perspective.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to pointofdeparture :
The pessimist in me says it is a hot RAV4.
Could be worse.
sevenracer said:I'm just hoping it's not a re-badged WRX or BMW 2 series gran coupe (or even X2). As that's how they do Gazoo lately.
Ha - And before you get your pitchforks out (or warm up your Fresh Prince slap)- I'm joking. It's more a commentary on how difficult the business case is these days for sports cars. If it is, as expected, a turbo, manual AWD Corolla hatch that'll be pretty rad.
I think it's going to be a 3 cyl. turbo similar to the GR Yaris. At 270hp it will compete directly against the WRX and Elantra N (except with AWD). This would mean that it needs to be priced in the 35k range because if it goes up to $40+ then it competes against the VW Golf R and now extinct STI which at just over 40k have 3 pedals and over 300hp.
Now if Toyota dealerships and their supply chain rules can stay out of the way and ensure that enthusiasts are able to get their hands on the cars or not remains to be seen.
Toyota has teased this car a minimum of 3 times prior to this announcement, and with enough clues that we probably know all of the following:
This is not a CUV, this is not an anemic appearance package, this is not FWD.
It is the Yaris GR drivetrain sitting on a wide body Corolla hatch. It has AWD with Torsten LSDs, it's the G16 turbo i3 from the GR Yaris with 268hp, but that may be low. I haven't seen weight figures yet, but hoping it's not much past 3000. Hopefully it retains the ability to be rwd biased as the Yaris is.
sevenracer said:I'm just hoping it's not a re-badged WRX or BMW 2 series gran coupe (or even X2). As that's how they do Gazoo lately.
Ha - And before you get your pitchforks out (or warm up your Fresh Prince slap)- I'm joking. It's more a commentary on how difficult the business case is these days for sports cars. If it is, as expected, a turbo, manual AWD Corolla hatch that'll be pretty rad.
I do find it a bit laughable that Toyota was crying poverty when it came time to produce the Supra and FRS/BRZ twins, claiming that they couldn't afford it unless it was a collaborative manufacturer effort, but suddenly release a car in the Yaris GR that is basically bespoke tip to tail with no qualms. I almost wonder if the Corolla GR is more of a ploy to paydown the investment into that turbo 3 and AWD systems.
fatallightning said:sevenracer said:I'm just hoping it's not a re-badged WRX or BMW 2 series gran coupe (or even X2). As that's how they do Gazoo lately.
Ha - And before you get your pitchforks out (or warm up your Fresh Prince slap)- I'm joking. It's more a commentary on how difficult the business case is these days for sports cars. If it is, as expected, a turbo, manual AWD Corolla hatch that'll be pretty rad.
I do find it a bit laughable that Toyota was crying poverty when it came time to produce the Supra and FRS/BRZ twins, claiming that they couldn't afford it unless it was a collaborative manufacturer effort, but suddenly release a car in the Yaris GR that is basically bespoke tip to tail with no qualms. I almost wonder if the Corolla GR is more of a ploy to paydown the investment into that turbo 3 and AWD systems.
I'm here for Toyota spreading this drivetrain out into lots of their small-ish vehicles. Whatever they have to tell the book keepers to make that happen is fine by me
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