VTEC TO VTEC..FULL CIRCLE.. copycat of SCOTTYB, CLUTCHSMOKE, CARL HEIDEMEN, PDAHONDAS88, APEXEIGHT

Well, not sure where to start. Long story. Will make it short. 

Was in the Honda game a long time (CRX/Integra/Accords/Civics/Wagovans/S2000) 1985-2007 or so.  My 07 S2000 is here but I hardly drive that. 

Then went to other brands, and haven't owned a Honda till a 2012 TSX. I don't really count it, as it was just a family hauler (great car), but without a MT didn't have the fun. 

Decided to sell of 5 cars, thread here if that interests you:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/4-cars-into-one-compromise-purchase/174354/page4/

GRM member took one of my favorites:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/trips-adventures-and-get-togethers/fly-and-drive-for-an-interesting-icon-of-the-90s-early-2000s/174308/page1/

So I started looking for a replacement, MT, family can come, $15K or less, 1 owner, mint, stock, as low miles as possible. I owned a brand new 2016 WRX Limited and a 11 Mazdaspeed3.  I wanted a car a bit more compliant, as family complained a lot about the WRX suspension, which I sold. 

Having owned the D series, and B series, I hadn't ever gotten into the K series of the Civics. Figured I would give it a try.  Almost went to buy a Milano red 17 Accord Sport 6MT, but it left me feeling too much appliance. 

Well drove a K series Civic Sedan, and rest was history. Had it down to WHite (oregon), Orange (Texas), and Red (local).  I always mostly own bright colored cars, and this time wanted a boring white. But lo and behold red was the best one out of the bunch.

So don't know if I am making bad life decisions, or what. But after my last Integra GSR coupe back in the day, I have been out of the game. When I picked up the GSR sedan (that GRM member bought), it rekindled something. Simple, lots of glass, good ergonomics, Honda fun.  Which made me come back full circle back to a Si again. Reminds me of my favorite car the 91 si hatch or my glassroof 90 CRX Si, the simple times, with the simple car. 

I am not a fan of sedan design. I am a hathback and wagon or coupe fan. But sometimes we have to make compromises, so a sedan graced the garage again.

Thanks to Clutchsmoke advice, and ScottyB went over to look at the motor mounts, give it a 50 mile test drive on 2nd and 3rd gear grinds, and the usual used car stuff, and it all checked out. So brought her home. 

• 68k miles
• 1 owner 
• all same honda dealer serviced from day 1 
• tires new
• Brakes all new
• no dings or dents 
• no paint work 
• mint condition 
• paid $11,300 with TTL
• 6MT LSD 

Joined the club of other 8th Gen SI owners on this forum:

• SCOTTYB
• CLUTCHSMOKE
• CARL HEIDEMEN
• PDAHONDAS88
• APEXEIGHT

After picking up the car, went on a 50 mile drive with the family to Lake Elizabeth. Suspension was very compliant. There was a Mazda ND and a 124 playing, and I was keeping up with them, somewhat. Tires are brand new 500 TW https://www.discounttiredirect.com/buy-tires/falken-pro-g5-sport-a-s/p/43841

All my cars have 100-200TW, so the tires will have to go. 

NVH on the highway was fantastic (not Lexus LS), but fantastic for a Honda. The shifter was excellent. Really enjoyed the full VTEC song (insert jokes), as did the kids and wife. Plenty of space for them. Very happy with the purchase. Just a bit more of a grown up or newer GSR sedan, is the best way to describe it.

So car #54 arrived

Well after wife got me to get the car dirty (as above) on our first drive, decided to detail it yesterday.
 

Spent about 8 hours baselining the car (visually). Full clay bar, paint cleaner, swirl remover, polish, sealant wax.

I also debadged the rear "civic" as it was bothering me. I may take the "si" off as well. Debating it now. 
 

Here are the results:

Also in true GRM fashion, ordered the Trailer hitch before buying the car. 

only "issue" that car has, is the common faded B pillars on both sides. If you take the black honda vinyl off, its body colored inside. But It is a tedious 8-10 hour job per online experts. So I ordered the 3 doors that needed the tape:

• Total cost was $15 per door for a total of $45 shipped to me.

Thursday To do list:

• Trailer Hitch Install
• New Transmission fluid

I also REALLY hate the wheels. Wife was commenting to put the Yoko AD08 R like I have on the GSR, but this has BRAND NEW tires (albeit crappy ones). So Debating that. None of the Volks I have in the garage will fit this car. Was thinking maybe some RSX 5 spoke, as that may be the cheap option.

well, if you're gonna experience one of these for better or worse, you picked just about the best example you can find these days.  amazing find.  certainly nicer and at a better price than mine.  

i agree it feels like a more mature GSR, that's a good way to put it.  not as adult as a TSX but not as rowdy as an old school integra either. 

completely understand you on the stock wheels.  i hate 'em too and they're boat anchors to add insult to injury.  mine also came to me with 500TW junkers and i hate to throw away new tires so i've been holding my nose the last couple years in prep for some RS4's to replace them or something similar.

if you can find a clean set of the RSX-S 5'ers they look real nice (even found your color to boot):
fun fact: any Mitsu Evolution 8, 9, or 10 wheel bolts right up along with a hub bore ring (their bore is bigger).  those are popular cheap wheels to get a wider patch.

if you think you're gonna canyon carve with it a bit, and you're getting new wheels anyway, the hot ticket is a front-staggered setup.  8.5 to 9" fronts and 7.5 to 8" rears or approx 255 and 225 f/r section width.  could be a pain on a daily though with tire rotation.  

ScottyB said:

well, if you're gonna experience one of these for better or worse, you picked just about the best example you can find these days.  amazing find.  certainly nicer and at a better price than mine.  

i agree it feels like a more mature GSR, that's a good way to put it.  not as adult as a TSX but not as rowdy as an old school integra either. 

completely understand you on the stock wheels.  i hate 'em too and they're boat anchors to add insult to injury.  mine also came to me with 500TW junkers and i hate to throw away new tires so i've been holding my nose the last couple years in prep for some RS4's to replace them or something similar.

if you can find a clean set of the RSX-S 5'ers they look real nice (even found your color to boot):
fun fact: any Mitsu Evolution 8, 9, or 10 wheel bolts right up along with a hub bore ring (their bore is bigger).  those are popular cheap wheels to get a wider patch.

if you think you're gonna canyon carve with it a bit, and you're getting new wheels anyway, the hot ticket is a front-staggered setup.  8.5 to 9" fronts and 7.5 to 8" rears or approx 255 and 225 f/r section width.  could be a pain on a daily though with tire rotation.  

Thank you for the detailed post and email as well. 

• Thanks. I had to pick it up, after I test drove one. This was the cleanest mint example I found, so I had to pounce. HEHE. 
• Agree DEFINITELY not as refined as my TSX Wagon, and I am ok with that. I am a 13 year old, and I don't need that much maturity 
• I usually swap my boat anchors right away. I will have to do research if the RSX is lighter. Couldn't find any on local craigs. EBAY has them for $600 a set. 
• Funny you menion EVO. I was reading your thread, and you said something like this has the easy wheels, and many things fit. Right away EVO popped in my head. I remember back in the day 4x100 and the frustrations. I love the EVO 8 wheels, and the Enkei/BBS ones are probably ligther than what I have on the civic now. But I have to do further research. 
• I live at the base of Angeles Crest highway. My life is corner carving 80% of the time. 255 won't rub? 
• I drive 30,000 miles a year.  Out of that 15K or so is hard cornering
• After seeing your car, and the red pic you posted above, debating if I should tint windows. I used to tint ALL my cars, but last 4-5 years, I LOVE the fishbowl look. Sign of getting old maybe....

I'd like one of those cars, but I would need a custom made pillow to put between my leg and the park brake handle.  I am exactly the wrong size for them.

Streetwiseguy said:

I'd like one of those cars, but I would need a custom made pillow to put between my leg and the park brake handle.  I am exactly the wrong size for them.

Ah that sucks!

One of my favorite things about it is the Si, and how the cockpit fits me. Going from my FJ cruiser to this, man talk about nice visibility! The thing I didn't like about the GSR sedan, was the seat bolstering was non existent. The Si one is - just perfect, for me. 

Nice write up. She's looking pretty good.

mr2s2000elise said:

Thank you for the detailed post and email as well. 

 

• Thanks. I had to pick it up, after I test drove one. This was the cleanest mint example I found, so I had to pounce. HEHE. 
• Agree DEFINITELY not as refined as my TSX Wagon, and I am ok with that. I am a 13 year old, and I don't need that much maturity 
• I usually swap my boat anchors right away. I will have to do research if the RSX is lighter. Couldn't find any on local craigs. EBAY has them for $600 a set. 
• Funny you menion EVO. I was reading your thread, and you said something like this has the easy wheels, and many things fit. Right away EVO popped in my head. I remember back in the day 4x100 and the frustrations. I love the EVO 8 wheels, and the Enkei/BBS ones are probably ligther than what I have on the civic now. But I have to do further research. 
• I live at the base of Angeles Crest highway. My life is corner carving 80% of the time. 255 won't rub? 
• I drive 30,000 miles a year.  Out of that 15K or so is hard cornering
• After seeing your car, and the red pic you posted above, debating if I should tint windows. I used to tint ALL my cars, but last 4-5 years, I LOVE the fishbowl look. Sign of getting old maybe....

any time!

the RSX wheels are maybe a bit lighter but no size difference.  just a nice looking OEM wheel, certainly easier to clean, and a fresh slate to mount some stickies on.

yeah the Evo wheels are the same bolt pattern, and an almost perfect offset.  in addition they're apparently very strong and light since they're made by Enkei for Mitsu.  the Evo 8 and 9 wheels are 17x8, but the 10 wheels are 18x8.5.  any will fit but you'll need a hub ring since the Mitsu bore is 67.1 and the Si is 64.1.  if i find a nice set of 8's or 9's i might just grab them.

255's up front will rub without generous camber, like -3 to -4.  you might still have to roll the fender slightly.  i think 8" wide wheels are a safe bet for as wide as you can go without having to roll the fenders or at least roll the inside lip slightly to make sure you're clear under compression.

i'm insanely jealous of your location.  with all those turns do yourself a favor and at least get a set of camber bolts on the front (lower position on the strut) for more camber and put your front alignment at zero toe.  its cheap, it'll feel great and you won't kill your tread shoulders.  should wear great with zero toe....with just bolts it put my front camber at -1.8 on each side.

love my tint, but after 20 years of driving its my first tinted car (non-SUV) so i have plenty of time feeling the sun on me.  i think i'm too spoiled now to go back.

Feedyurhed said:

Nice write up. She's looking pretty good.

Thanks! Plan is to try to keep her looking BAT worthy hehe 

ScottyB said:

any time!

the RSX wheels are maybe a bit lighter but no size difference.  just a nice looking OEM wheel, certainly easier to clean, and a fresh slate to mount some stickies on.

yeah the Evo wheels are the same bolt pattern, and an almost perfect offset.  in addition they're apparently very strong and light since they're made by Enkei for Mitsu.  the Evo 8 and 9 wheels are 17x8, but the 10 wheels are 18x8.5.  any will fit but you'll need a hub ring since the Mitsu bore is 67.1 and the Si is 64.1.  if i find a nice set of 8's or 9's i might just grab them.

255's up front will rub without generous camber, like -3 to -4.  you might still have to roll the fender slightly.  i think 8" wide wheels are a safe bet for as wide as you can go without having to roll the fenders or at least roll the inside lip slightly to make sure you're clear under compression.

i'm insanely jealous of your location.  with all those turns do yourself a favor and at least get a set of camber bolts on the front (lower position on the strut) for more camber and put your front alignment at zero toe.  its cheap, it'll feel great and you won't kill your tread shoulders.  should wear great with zero toe....with just bolts it put my front camber at -1.8 on each side.

love my tint, but after 20 years of driving its my first tinted car (non-SUV) so i have plenty of time feeling the sun on me.  i think i'm too spoiled now to go back.

• I initially thought RSX wheels will be easy to find in Craigs. Since in So Cal, we can essentially find anything at anytime. Not so. 
• Since I prefer the EVO wheels look, I will go with the poverty spec Evo8/9, 17s. I don't want to upsize to 18. 3 of the 5 cars I sold had 15/16 wheels, so I want to hold on to the lower size for nostalgia sake. Plus I can easily throw on AD08R or RE71 in 17 size. 
• Come out here and visit sometime. We have great roads. Our neighbor just did a 100 hour car ride (in an M5 with 3 kids) to Atlanta and Destin Florida. 
• I will order the camber bolts (thanks!)
• We are similar ages. I feel first 15 years, I ALWAYS had tint. Last 4-5 years, I seek out cars WITHOUT tint. Lets see what happens on our 3,000 mile roadtrip, if the A/C can keep up for the kids in the back, then will make final decision. 

Trailer hitch is here. 
 

going to install it tomorrow and do the trans fluid 

Can I join the Rallye Red 4 door club?

I got mine last fall after looking for months.  Has just over 108k now.  I really wanted white as it would be getting parked in a dirt lot in the Texas sun for days at a time when I go out of town for work and I figured that would survive the best.  All I could find locally already had clear coat failure and I had resigned myself to maybe that was best.  Can't destroy paint that was already destroyed.  This one popped up at a local dealership and I went to go check it out before they had even posted pictures.  I never thought I'd own a red car, but here we are.  The hood is starting to show the beginning signs of crows feet but otherwise the paint is in great shape.  I caught myself googling carbon fiber hoods the other day, so maybe that'll happen some day.  I had to fiddle with the clutch and put in some Amsoil Synchromesh to get it to shift decently.  I think switching out the clutch master and slave cylinders are up next.  According to K-tuned, Honda designed them to slow down shifts and between that and the rev hang, I sometimes have a hard time driving it smooth.  It's got brand new Barum tires but they are pretty terrible and need to go.  I might keep them on the OEM wheels and get some track suited tires and wheels for fun times.  I replaced the factory nav with a Alpine unit with Android Auto which really helps with the daily drivability.  The factory nav unit is incredibly heavy as well.

czerka said:

 

 

Can I join the Rallye Red 4 door club?

 

I got mine last fall after looking for months.  Has just over 108k now.  I really wanted white as it would be getting parked in a dirt lot in the Texas sun for days at a time when I go out of town for work and I figured that would survive the best.  All I could find locally already had clear coat failure and I had resigned myself to maybe that was best.  Can't destroy paint that was already destroyed.  This one popped up at a local dealership and I went to go check it out before they had even posted pictures.  I never thought I'd own a red car, but here we are.  The hood is starting to show the beginning signs of crows feet but otherwise the paint is in great shape.  I caught myself googling carbon fiber hoods the other day, so maybe that'll happen some day.  I had to fiddle with the clutch and put in some Amsoil Synchromesh to get it to shift decently.  I think switching out the clutch master and slave cylinders are up next.  According to K-tuned, Honda designed them to slow down shifts and between that and the rev hang, I sometimes have a hard time driving it smooth.  It's got brand new Barum tires but they are pretty terrible and need to go.  I might keep them on the OEM wheels and get some track suited tires and wheels for fun times.  I replaced the factory nav with a Alpine unit with Android Auto which really helps with the daily drivability.  The factory nav unit is incredibly heavy as well.

Hey hey hey, MORE the merrier!

Unofficial count, you are #7, of the Gen 8 Si GRM owners club 

Looks like you have the red H on the front as well.

Funny thing I always have red/orange/lime green/yellow cars. I was hoping for a white Si sedan this time. Car gods weren't making it so! I can't say I am unhappy with red.  If you put some good sealant on yours, will it help stop the crows feet? Of course, I can't discourage a carbon fiber hood! I was eyeing the front and rear type R swap ($5K) on the 8th gen forum. One can dream, eh?

I am planning to garage mine, so hopefully that will slow down the paint deterioation. I know I won't own an oxidized car and I won't repaint. So if it comes to that, Si will have to leave the fleet. Time will tell. 

I am doing the Synchromesh tomorrow. ScottyB recommended same. My shifting is fine, but just unnecessarily preventative if you ask me. Just something to fiddle with.  I noticed your B pillar vinyls are perfect. Mine are toast. I am replacing those next week (waiting for dealer to mail me the parts)

Rev hang doesn't bother me anymore. My 07 S2000 also has same clutch delay and rev hang. It is what it is. 

Can you post some pics of your Alpine unit? Did you do the Imaestro kit to keep the steering controls? Appreciate it.

czerka said:

Can I join the Rallye Red 4 door club?

The hood is starting to show the beginning signs of crows feet but otherwise the paint is in great shape.  I caught myself googling carbon fiber hoods the other day, so maybe that'll happen some day.  I had to fiddle with the clutch and put in some Amsoil Synchromesh to get it to shift decently.  I think switching out the clutch master and slave cylinders are up next.  According to K-tuned, Honda designed them to slow down shifts and between that and the rev hang, I sometimes have a hard time driving it smooth. 

i love how these cars are invading the forum now.  looks great man!

mine has the crow's feet too, and heck mine was even resprayed at some point.  keeping it out of the sun is what promotes longevity with the weak clearcoat so in your shoes i'd just keep wax on it and hope for the best.  

Amsoil helped me but adjusting the clutch pedal where it connects to the master cylinder fixed it for good.  Honda did put a CDV (clutch delay valve) into their factory CMC to slow down the clutch throwout to protect the trans from shock.  "Eman" sells a factory unit with the CDV deleted.  that's the one you want, he's a Socal 8th gen wizard and apparently it the way to go:
https://www.naperformanceftw.com/kzcmc/kzcmc-clutch-master-for-honda-civic

i've gotten used to the hang/delay at this point and can shift pretty fast.  just takes some time.

ScottyB said:

czerka said:

Can I join the Rallye Red 4 door club?

The hood is starting to show the beginning signs of crows feet but otherwise the paint is in great shape.  I caught myself googling carbon fiber hoods the other day, so maybe that'll happen some day.  I had to fiddle with the clutch and put in some Amsoil Synchromesh to get it to shift decently.  I think switching out the clutch master and slave cylinders are up next.  According to K-tuned, Honda designed them to slow down shifts and between that and the rev hang, I sometimes have a hard time driving it smooth. 

i love how these cars are invading the forum now.  looks great man!

mine has the crow's feet too, and heck mine was even resprayed at some point.  keeping it out of the sun is what promotes longevity with the weak clearcoat so in your shoes i'd just keep wax on it and hope for the best.  

Amsoil helped me but adjusting the clutch pedal where it connects to the master cylinder fixed it for good.  Honda did put a CDV (clutch delay valve) into their factory CMC to slow down the clutch throwout to protect the trans from shock.  "Eman" sells a factory unit with the CDV deleted.  that's the one you want, he's a Socal 8th gen wizard and apparently it the way to go:
https://www.naperformanceftw.com/kzcmc/kzcmc-clutch-master-for-honda-civic

i've gotten used to the hang/delay at this point and can shift pretty fast.  just takes some time.

Is the CMC a preventative fix? Or just replace it when OEM dies?

MYbe I should check one of these out. 

Fueled by Caffeine said:

MYbe I should check one of these out. 

Come and drive mine anytime.

Maintenance:

So I was going through the whole maintenance log. Everything was done at Honda, at the same dealer car was purchased. Owner was referred to as a "SHE" through the notes. 

Aside from regular oil changes, every 6-9K miles, the few things that were notable were:

• Sunvisors were replaced 3 times. (ODD)
• Front brakes pads and rotors were done at 26K miles, 56K miles, 68k miles
• Rear brakes were done 55K miles
• Clutch was done at 58K miles (seem VERY early). 

Car had a "service contract," which paid out on all repairs. Is it possible dealer took advantage and just did repairs early? I am not sure.

Car came to me with:

-clutch is only 10K miles old

Selling honda dealer did for me:

• Oil changed
• New Wiper blades
• 2 new rear shocks
• 4 new window mouldings
• New Glovebox latch
• New front brake pads
• New front rotors
• New Cabin filter
• New air filter
• New battery

mr2s2000elise said:

Is the CMC a preventative fix? Or just replace it when OEM dies?

replace when it dies.  its better quality than the aftermarket stuff and works more reliably than the EM1 CMC that everyone wants to swap in.

mr2s2000elise said:

Aside from regular oil changes, every 6-9K miles, the few things that were notable were:

• Sunvisors were replaced 3 times. (ODD)
• Front brakes pads and rotors were done at 26K miles, 56K miles, 68k miles
• Rear brakes were done 55K miles
• Clutch was done at 58K miles (seem VERY early). 

Car had a "service contract," which paid out on all repairs. Is it possible dealer took advantage and just did repairs early? I am not sure.

the visors have a reputation for coming apart, usually due to heat.  mine are fine, but they're pretty flimsy.

between the clutch and brakes it sounds like it was driven a lot in Socal traffic i guess?  all that clutch slipping and jumping back on the brakes.  that's my best guess.  i think its all driver technique, the OEM clutches seem to last a really long time with people that know how to drive a manual well.

if i was in her shoes and had a serivce contract though...i'd be very tempted to use it all the time.  seems like she sure did.

that's an awesome new parts list btw, the dealer did you good.

In reply to ScottyB :

Thanks!

Does sound like driven in traffic by someone who doesn't know how to use a clutch maybe ? 

I have had oem clutch 200k+ in many cars. 

that said in so cal we usually drive 15-20k miles a year. I drive 30-35k a year 

this car averaged 6,800 a year 

Trailer hitch - Curt 

• had to lower muffler off hanger 

Trailer hitch is done 

Also per ScottyB recommendation: 

• full radiator flush using blue Honda coolant 
• amsoil synchromesh tranny fluid 
• clutch fluid change