These seem like a good value. What is there to know?
Lets cover:
All Years Toureg
All Years Cayenne
Any models that share unpinnings with these. For example, does the 3L Diesel show up in any Wagons, and if so, how similar are those models in terms of reliability?
Stay away from first gen Touaregs.
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Remember the 5.0 V10 TDi Toureg we got for a couple years in the '00s? The Europeans actually got a V12 in the Audi. I only ever saw one in the flesh. Cut me off rudely in Romania. Since it looked like a local mobster I didn't protest.
These are cheap and have been for awhile. They can be mechanically needy and if they're neglected will really cost you money. Buy one that's been well maintained and has the records to prove it.
Really like our '15 cayenne diesel, been extremely trouble free has 105k miles on it now. I liked my 06 Cayenne Turbo S, but it started burning oil like crazy at 140k miles and had to get rid of it....
I was asking about these with my local Porsche mechanic and he basically said they are good 150k mile cars. After that they get very expensive to maintain.
Did the Touareg and Cayenne share diesels after 2010? It looks like it.
Someone mentioned in another thread that the Q7 is much more difficult to do basic repairs on. I wonder if that applies to the diesel of that model or not?
Might also be interested in an Atlas.
In reply to pheller :
Maybe because the q7 has a different quattro drivetrain layout than the rest of the audi lineup?
Porsches cannot be serviced electronically with VWAG tools (Ross-Tech, etc). Why? Because Porsche, I guess.
What amuses me about them is the left side motor mount is significantly further aft than the right side mount. This has to be a parts commonality throwback to the original Audi 5000 that had the radiator next to the engine so the left side motor mount was shifted back a lot. There can't really be any other reason for that.
Any ability to do electronic servicing with aftermarket tools for Porsche?
I'll definitely be watching this thread, with particular interest in the diesel variants. There are a few new-ish diesel Q7's semi-local to me that seem to be in the sweet spot of the depreciation/reliability matrix. It seems pretty simple and straightforward to remove the problematic bits on the diesels, get a tune to make the ecu happy, then have gobs of torque and a nearly 700-mile range to play with.
In reply to pheller :
Sort of? The durametric is probably the best option. PIWIS is the real deal but extremely expensive. I've heard there's a Asian knock off version of it available but it's still kinda expensive and I'm not sure about compatibility.
I've talked with Ross-Tech about why VCDS doesn't work on Porsches, I think it boils down to Ross Tech not wanting to pay whatever Porsche is charging for them to gain access...
I have a 2014 Touareg TDI. Bought at 95k and currently has 110k. I do have a Malone tune on mine that boosts the HP to a little over 300 and the torque to 490. I also run a slightly larger than stock AT tire. That improves the ride quality over crappy roads significantly. I have also purchased all of the parts and the tune to delete the DPF, EGR, and DEF systems. I have not installed them and probably won't unless the system becomes an overly expensive problem.
The good.
Mine is a TDI with the 3.0L Turbo Diesel. I freaking love this engine. It routinely returns 19-21 mpg in traffic and 24-26 on the interstate if you keep your speeds reasonable. If you baby it on the back roads you can get 30 but I never drive that slow. The car is comfortable, rides well, handles well, and is all-around a good car. Without the tune, it's surprisingly quick, with the tune, it's very quick. 490 lbft of torque will spin all 4 tires on concrete and damn near give you whiplash to boot. Being able to set the cruise control through the mountains and hills and never have it downshift or hunt for a gear is pure pleasure.
It will tow 7700 pounds with zero effort. It will pull my boat, my loaded car trailer, and everything else I have needed to tow since I bought it. It will run with traffic while doing it. It's nice to have that capability without the penalty of driving a truck on a daily basis.
The bad.
It's a diesel and it leaks a little oil. I'm fairly certain all diesels leak a little. It is the blackest crap you have ever seen come out of an engine. It will permanently stain your driveway. It holds 8.1 quarts of oil so oil changes are going to be more expensive.
Parts are not like parts for a more common car. They are fairly expensive. They are also frequently not in stock locally and your FLAPS will bend you over a barrel on pricing. Plan to buy parts online. I have replaced an alternator, (FLAPS, $800; RA, $300) and a HVAC blower motor, (VW and FLAPS, $800; FPC Euro, $200). If you have a spare car and can wait for parts it's not a huge deal but if you have to have it fixed to go to work the next day, plan to pay through the nose for parts.
I will say, the repairs I have done were fairly easy even though the engine bay is absolutely full of engine.
It developed a coolant leak at about 103k. Something under the intake. The only things down there are the EGR cooler and the oil cooler. I decided to take it to a local indy shop that specializes in German cars. They tracked it down to the oil cooler gasket. I had them replace all the soft parts under the intake while they had it off. Total spend was right at $1500, which I thought was fairly reasonable.
I have also gotten an occasional CEL for the temp sensor on the DEF system. It has popped up 3 times. It is a known problem due to a poor design where the connector for the sensor gets DEF fluid in it that causes loss of connection. It only seems to show up when temps are below freezing, which almost never happens around here so I'll continue to ignore it.
VW's Navigation system is a complete joke. I'm still using my Garmin stuck to my dash.
The conclusion. Would I buy another one? If I could get the diesel, absolutely. A gas version? Nope. Without the diesel, it's just another blah SUV in a world full of blah SUVs. I'm halfheartedly looking for a TDI in the previous generation as they came with a low-range transfer case. If I buy one of those I'll probably sell my XJ.
In reply to Toyman! :
Good summary, thanks.
Ok, so the only difference then between the Porsche and the VW with the same 3.0L TDI is that Porsche won't let you cheaply access the computer?
I mean, besides all that fancy Porsche leather.
In reply to pheller :
When I was shopping I started looking at the Porsche. They have some options the Touareg doesn't get. I think they also handle better on twisty roads with the air suspension. You pay for that though, the Cayenne starts about $10k-$20k+ more than the Touareg and it maintains that premium on the used market. Since I didn't really want all the extra fluff, I stuck with the lower priced Touareg. Mine is the Sport which is their base vehicle with fewer bells and whistles.
I'm about two weeks into ownership of a '14 Cayenne Diesel. High mileage, one owner, always serviced at the dealer. Previous owner bought a new Cayenne at the same dealer. Interesting so far. Decent option list for a Diesel, 14 ways, PDLS, Premium Plus Package, etc. No PSSM or Air Suspension. Those two options are rare on diesels, and carry a crazy premium used. Oddly, the diesel Cayenne's carry a large premium in terms of used price compared to original sticker. Much higher than the Cayenne models that sticker 120k+.
NC doesn't have emissions inspections on diesels, so when the DPF, DEF, EGR become problematic they will be tuned out and replaced. Hopefully that's a while down the road.
PIWIS is pretty readily available loaded on a laptop for around a grand. Or I've read of people building their own set-up for much less but that seems like a big hassle. The Foxwell NT530 seems to be the most common OBD Scantool for it. It does some basic 2 way, but doesn't appear to program modules. But in terms of DPF Regen, typical maintenance resets, reading / graphing sensors, battery registration, I think that will do it for less than $200.
My opinion may change in a year :-)
In reply to pheller :
Nope. The suspension is different, the transmission coding is different, the exterior is different, interior is different, more options available and generally a better dealership experience. I drove the touareg and cayenne diesels directly back to back and liked the way the cayenne drove much more, although I prefer the exterior looks of the touareg more...
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