What Car – Teen Addition

I've been suggesting cars for my nephew in Toledo.

My list: 1994-1999 Toyota Celica GT 2002-2004 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec-V Subaru anything.

Hey Per living in the NW Subarus are everywhere but I have heard bad stories about reliability. Including a bad one from a car friend.

What is your thoughts on cost of ownership?

Thanks! RS

ill sell you my 1999 Saturn SL2 for $5000 or whatever. its really nice actually

Mazda Protege Ford Focus Subaru Impreza Hyuandai Tiburon

They are all good handling cars, good brakes, enough power, good reliability and reasonably priced and reasonably cool.

My dad has put about 170k miles on a legacy (320k total now), and it has mostly been good, but there are a few issues. The alternator quit, and the krages replacements only last a year, then you have to exchange it for a new one. The timing belt has several roller bearings which all needed replacing and cost about $300 (I was looking at one in the junkyard with 170k and even on that one the bearings were pretty loose). Its fairily common for the outer cv joints to get stuck to the knuckles so if you replace them its potentially between $150 (from a lower priced salvage yard) to $800 (all new parts). Other than that, its about the same as any other car, those are the only problems that probably wouldnt have happened on any other kind of car.

I dont know why everyone is recommending even semi-sporty cars for children? Why? Is this is a vicariously-living-through-your-children thing?

Even if the kid is interested in cars, doesnt mean you have to buy them something sporty. Buy them something SAFE, first and foremost. Buy them something completely expendable, too.

$5000 will get you a lot of car (mass and airbags). As to those who think trucks are not crashworthy, i advise you to consider that safety ratings are different for different sizes of vehicles, and a badly rated full-size pickup is still safer than a 5 star compact car, basically. I do think rangers and s10s are a little too small for that to count for much, though.

I second the Dakota idea. buy them a 2.5 or 3.9 so that it will be slow enough to be safe. If you've ever tried to take one down to the frame rails you'll see why they're sturdy compared to cars. And when i say sturdy, this also includes the possibility of hitting curbs, which is pretty common for kids who want to go fast and dont know how yet. Lots of smaller cars will E36 M3 out their suspensions if you hit a curb hard.

Also, the dakota is a pretty good basis for learning to work on and modify cars. It has decent potential, too, even for a bit of handling You can also motor swap it to the moon.. although i would recommend my child have a 'backup plan' before attempting such things.

full disclosure: my parents own a 96 dakota, im in love with it, learned to drive partially in it, had an accident in it, and im still trying to get my hands on it, even though the motor is about to go.. the FIRST motor, that is....

IMO, the reason for recomending sporty cars (rather than trucks and suvs) is the better handling. Im only 26, but to me a good car for someone learning to drive is a farily underpowered car that handles and stops well.

Vigo wrote: I dont know why everyone is recommending even semi-sporty cars for children? Why? Is this is a vicariously-living-through-your-children thing?

No, it's giving them a chance to enjoy driving a little before five kids and a minivan beckon...

If I were buying one for a teenager today, it would be either a Volvo V70 (cheap, but still new enough) and fwd, or something like a Camry. Boring I know, but you have to think it will be dented or wrecked.

I gave my niece my wife's old Camry, and despite having some driver training, it's been dented a few times already and she's put it into a ditch as well.

If I were to "give" them something nicer, it would have to be a project that they would restore a lot on their own, with supervision of course. Teenagers for the most part (there are exceptions of course) seem to think things just magically appear in front of them for their disposal and abuse!

RacerDave. Do you have any thoughts on the cost of ownership of a V70?

Again thank all of you for your time. RS

I haven't owned a V70 personally, but a friend of mine has one. They've used it as a family car for about 6 years now and it's been very reliable. You do have to do your maintenance, but it's not all that much. I think it is a '98. He paid 6,500 for it back in 2004 I think. It seems to get around 26mpg or so too.

The Camry we had had 106k miles and was a '94. The motor is great but the electric windows are a constant source of irritation for me. Yes I still get to fix everything that goes wrong with it. yeah for me. Still, a good car for a teenager, but I like the Volvo better. I've driven it numerous times and it drives better and seems to be better built.

SVreX wrote: Pickup trucks??? What are you guys, crazy? Here's a BIG thumbs down vote on that one. They are not very crashworthy. Pickups are always later to adopt safety regs than passenger vehicles. Airbags, side impact rails, crumple zones, collapsible steering wheels, rear impact headrests, side curtain airbags, anti-lock brakes, drop under engines, all came LATER in trucks than in passenger vehicles. That doesn't even mention fuel saddle tanks outside the frame rails. Plus, they make the driver feel tough, even invincible. They encourage stinkin' thinkin' behind the wheel. Guarantee there will be moments with a bunch of kids piled in the back, or 5 girls sitting in each other's laps in the cab. Trucks are not cars. They have always been treated differently (with exception) when it comes to passenger safety.

Everything about this post is...

Well, wrong. At least for my kid. His first car is a truck.

If you buy your kid something they don't like, they won't respect it and will treat it like crap, including driving it like crap. Seen it way too many times over the last few decades of seeing teens in cars. Also, if they have no sweat equity into it, they won't respect it even if they like it, as it came too easily.

My kid got a '79 Chevy 1/2 ton stepside pickup as his first car (after learning to drive in my BMW and my Fiat Spider). The two of us brought it back from running but beat to crap and rusty to a matte black hot rod that he had many hours of sweeat equity into. He loves his truck, and has much respect for what it can and can't do (like corner fast or protect him in a crash).

We started working on it befire he got his learner's permit. He's now been driving it for over 18 months with no incident. He's got big plans for it once he gets is own real income and a second car as a daiy so he can pull it off the road and build up a big block for it...

That truck is AWESOME.

As for sporty cars being bad?

The safest car is the one that doesn't get in the accident. Accident avoidance is important.

jrw1621 wrote: Not sure where you are located but here in Ohio there are some new rules that limit how many passangers new drivers can have. The idea is to cut down on the distractions and the "hey watch this" kind of moments.

And initial studies seem to show these laws asa being counterproductive.

They reduce the headline grabbing "7 kids killed in an accident" stuff, but increase the total # of incidents to the point where the overall numbers are not in these laws favor.

Wish I remembered where I found the #s. they were based off of states taht had only recently implemented such laws, so weren't terribly conclusive (limited sample sizes for the after implementation side), but do make a decent amount of sense:

For example: Lets say you have four students going in a group to location X. And only one passenger is allowed.

1) Now you have twice as many cars with inexerienced/teen drivers. 2) The cars are probably following one another. Which has been shown to increase the danger factor. 3) Odds are very good that in addition to talking inside the cars, there is a cell phone/texting/whatever conversation going on between them 4) The "hey watch this" doesn't really go away, it just morphs into competing/showing off to the people in the other car.

Arg! It's killing me I can't remember my references on this (and note, the example is my conjecture explaining the results, not part of the of the actual results).

So far (at the time I saw the studies, ~ a year ago) passenger limit laws appear(ed?) worse than ineffective. But they make the gov'ts look like they're doing something, and 1-2 teenagers killed in crash just doesn't have the same punch in the gut affect when you see it in the media that half a dozen killed in the accident does. Even if the total #s don't work out, the sensationalism is reduced. Which (if you wanted to be extra pessimistic) might reduce the awareness level as well. Since the smaller accidents likely don't get any mention beyond local.

Seriously, get your kid the hottest damn chick magnet you and he can find, he'll be raking in the poon and he'll respect you, his mother and his car for all it provides, unless he's gay, then get him a Miata, oh wait... (this is in jest ladies and gentlemen)

Sorry, these threads about 'what car for a teenage driver' kill me, and I had to interject some humor since most of these end up being my kid vs your kid vs the neighbor's kid comparison...

P71 wrote: Under 25 and a Civic = raped on insurance.

I don't agree. I am 21 and I have a Civic. It isn't that bad on insurance. It isn't the cheapest but it was cheaper then all the other cars I looked at as a first car except a Grand National including an E30 (both coupe, sedan and wagon), Alfa Spider, Volvo turbo brick, 240SX and a couple others. I have to suggest Civic. They are reliable safe and easy as hell to work on. Although I still wish I had of bought that Grand National instead even if it was '80s disco brown w/ a black cowl hood and illegal tint windows.

96DXCivic wrote:

P71 wrote: Under 25 and a Civic = raped on insurance.

I don't agree. I am 21 and I have a Civic. It isn't that bad on insurance. It isn't the cheapest but it was cheaper then all the other cars I looked at as a first car except a Grand National including an E30 (both coupe, sedan and wagon), Alfa Spider, Volvo turbo brick, 240SX and a couple others. I have to suggest Civic. They are reliable safe and easy as hell to work on. Although I still wish I had of bought that Grand National instead even if it was '80s disco brown w/ a black cowl hood and illegal tint windows.

E30 Wagon??? In the USA???

I've seen them here. Very full of win.

I know of one for sale with E30 M3 flares and an s52 swap...

Speaking as a 24-year old who started out with an 82 Tercel, I have to say that slow is good. I got in trouble with that thing, and would have gotten in more if it was faster.

I say, you're buying him a car. If he ruins the car because he doesn't respect it, then he won't have a car anymore. Lesson learned.

While we're on the topic of studies that I wish I could remember links to, I remember one proving that quick maneuverable cars have higher accident rates than slow big ones. (Dons flame retardent suit.)

While I've been called a fool for even thinking it, provided insurance cost doesn't kill the deal, I plan on giving my oldest son my black bugeye WRX with a fresh coat of paint for his first car. While relatively powerful, it can't be any more of a deathtrap than the V8 powered rwd cars I drove in E36 M3ty weather year-round growing up in the mountains of Idaho... .

No, it's giving them a chance to enjoy driving a little before five kids and a minivan beckon...

This statement does not compute for me. I have owned 5 or 6 minivans so far and still dont have kids. I took the motor out of one and built a 13 second car with it.

As for the people saying accident avoidance is where it's at, i agree with you, but here's the thing.. overcontrolling and overcorrection cause a HUGE amount of accidents. Just because you miss the geo in front of you doesnt mean you miss the 200 year old oak tree you're now spinning towards. Understeer is the safe way to learn, and good abs and stability control will do a lot more for letting a kid avoid an accident than just giving him an old-tech car with cat-like reflexes and no safety net. Low limits and stability are where it's at.

Same car I put my wife in when the kids were in baby seats. Volvo 240 or 740. You can get a decent one for about a grand. If they don't crash or get a ticket in a year you can discuss something nicer.

I've got a five kids. So far three have reached and been through the kid car phase. Each one has received a 10-12 year old Honda Accord sedan. 2 have been manuals, one was autotragic (she just could not drive a stick). Airbags from about 1992 and up. Reliable, tough (I've lost count of bumpers replaced) safe, cheap, easy to work on. Now I know it doesn't hit the cool factor, but safe reliable and cheap transportation has proven itself time and time again to be pretty cool to my kids.

They pay for their own gas and any "incidents" that may occur. When they turn 21, it's give it back or buy it from me. (I've made them some sweetheart deals, yes, I'm guilty there. Hey they're my kids). My two younger ones, which hit the phase in about 18 months, will get the same deal. They've seen the benefits and are cool with it if that helps.

It's proven to be a pretty good way to ease them into car responsible adult hood. They understand the value of a buck and of saving it.

My oldest boy is now 21+...He's starting to think about a completely unpractical toy car to go along with his 1992 Accord 5-speed with 170k on the clock. Wonder where he gets it.

And my 25 yr old daughter? She bought an '02 Accord at 21. She said, Are you kidding? Why would I want to worry about a different car?

Chris_V wrote:

SVreX wrote: Pickup trucks??? What are you guys, crazy? Here's a BIG thumbs down vote on that one. They are not very crashworthy. Pickups are always later to adopt safety regs than passenger vehicles. Airbags, side impact rails, crumple zones, collapsible steering wheels, rear impact headrests, side curtain airbags, anti-lock brakes, drop under engines, all came LATER in trucks than in passenger vehicles. That doesn't even mention fuel saddle tanks outside the frame rails. Plus, they make the driver feel tough, even invincible. They encourage stinkin' thinkin' behind the wheel. Guarantee there will be moments with a bunch of kids piled in the back, or 5 girls sitting in each other's laps in the cab. Trucks are not cars. They have always been treated differently (with exception) when it comes to passenger safety.

Everything about this post is... Well, wrong. At least for my kid. His first car is a truck. If you buy your kid something they don't like, they won't respect it and will treat it like crap, including driving it like crap. Seen it way too many times over the last few decades of seeing teens in cars. Also, if they have no sweat equity into it, they won't respect it even if they like it, as it came too easily.

First off, your son's truck is awesome.

Secondly, I agree completely with everything you said about respect, sweat equity, etc. It can be applied to ANY vehicle (or anything else, for that matter). Not just trucks.

Thirdly, absolutely nothing you said proves my post wrong.

I was discussing safety, etc. The facts I stated on trucks are completely true. They were also in keeping with the original poster's question (regarding price, safety, airbags, seating for 4, etc.)

While I love the truck, and wouldn't mind it for my own kids, your statement that everything about my post was...well wrong, was...well wrong.

It's pretty hard to make the case for a truck based on safety facts. Awesome, yes. Safe, well...

Vigo wrote: I dont know why everyone is recommending even semi-sporty cars for children? Why? Is this is a vicariously-living-through-your-children thing? Even if the kid is interested in cars, doesnt mean you have to buy them something sporty. Buy them something SAFE, first and foremost. Buy them something completely expendable, too. $5000 will get you a lot of car (mass and airbags). As to those who think trucks are not crashworthy, i advise you to consider that safety ratings are different for different sizes of vehicles, and a badly rated full-size pickup is still safer than a 5 star compact car, basically. I do think rangers and s10s are a little too small for that to count for much, though.

how come no ones suggested it... P71....