What happened to Spec Miata?

Keep in mind that this is "National" level racing - not Regional. The National racers seem to have more money than sense and sometimes egos to match. They are willing to pay the $5-7k for a "pro" motor with all the tricks and treats.

This does not really happen at the local / Regional level racing which is more grassroots. Various regions have a sub-class of SM typically called Sealed Spec Miata where you have the car dyno'ed at the region specified dyno facility and the motor is tuned and sealed at the max HP. WE have great racing among this group while the guys eager to spend big $ and the desire the race "Nationals" can do their own thing and keep the race shops in business.

It seems like they could avoid the sealed motor route if they just agreed on a max whp HP/TQ number lower than the stock motor is capable of and seal the tune/ECU that gets you there. Top 5 cars on the dyno after every race.

Yep. Various ways of dealing with the issue. Myself and I suspect most regional racers don't really care too much as we don't plan on racing nationals and dealing with the arms races. We just want to hit the track once a month or so, race, have some fun and go about our normal lives.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It seems like they could avoid the sealed motor route if they just agreed on a max whp HP/TQ number lower than the stock motor is capable of and seal the tune/ECU that gets you there. Top 5 cars on the dyno after every race.

Restrictor plate. Only so much air can physically flow through a restrictor. Yes, the area under peak can be much better, but at least the peak power issue is solved.

Of course, with the support Mazda has, it should not be that hard to get sealed motors. On top of that, sealed motors don`t HAVE to be expensive. That is for the organizers/committees to decide though.

I always shout this at all organizations. Make it so it is not cost affective to throw cubic dollars at the motor so the gains are so minimal.

Draw cars out of a hat before quali. Then again before the race. Allow a practice session in between to allow for final adjustments to be made to suit the driver's style and fitment.

If they are all spec cars, it shouldn't matter who's you drive, right?

Wasn't that the idea in IROC?

Sealed motors are a lot easier to implement if the engine's still in production. MX-5 Cup, for example. It's more of a hassle when it's an engine that disappeared nearly a decade ago.

HiTempguy wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It seems like they could avoid the sealed motor route if they just agreed on a max whp HP/TQ number lower than the stock motor is capable of and seal the tune/ECU that gets you there. Top 5 cars on the dyno after every race.

Restrictor plate. Only so much air can physically flow through a restrictor. Yes, the area under peak can be much better, but at least the peak power issue is solved. Of course, with the support Mazda has, it should not be that hard to get sealed motors. On top of that, sealed motors don`t HAVE to be expensive. That is for the organizers/committees to decide though. I always shout this at all organizations. Make it so it is not cost affective to throw cubic dollars at the motor so the gains are so minimal.

The 1.8 powered cars already have restrictor plates.

You would think a sealed motor program would have been done by now but not particularly easy to implement and scale at this point.

The gains being made are indeed minimal and the cost of those gains are big ($7k for a "pro" motor) but at the National level of racers,, people are willing to pay for it.

Keith Tanner wrote: Wasn't that the idea in IROC?

In IROC all the cars were owned by the race organizers. They even tested them all to make sure they did the same lap times as close as possible. Here you're dealing with individual owners.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It seems like they could avoid the sealed motor route if they just agreed on a max whp HP/TQ number lower than the stock motor is capable of and seal the tune/ECU that gets you there. Top 5 cars on the dyno after every race.

That gets you into NASA PT dyno reclassing weirdness with crazy built motors tuned to limit peak numbers with impossible curves leading up to them.

Rupert wrote:

stroker wrote: Claiming rule. Problem solved.

That sure worked well for years in AMA motorcycle racing!

Claim rule only works when people actually use it. I recall seeing a club race in a series with the same make and models. One of the teams noted they recently got a engine rebuild and was nearly lapping the competition. I talked to one of the competitors and asked why don't you protest him? obviously that amount of speed is ridiculous. His take was if they do that it will become a p$ssing competition and would take away from the fun. I will admit I have seen people get mad about people protesting, but at the end of the day if you don't cheat you shouldn't care.

Swank Force One wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It seems like they could avoid the sealed motor route if they just agreed on a max whp HP/TQ number lower than the stock motor is capable of and seal the tune/ECU that gets you there. Top 5 cars on the dyno after every race. EDIT: I don't think that was clear. There should be a HP and torque curve that is considered stock. If your motor varies from it by more than 10% you are not legal.

That gets you into NASA PT dyno reclassing weirdness with crazy built motors tuned to limit peak numbers with impossible curves leading up to them.

Simple enough to mandate HP and torque max numbers at say 4 different RPM points not just an over all max or max at a given max RPM.

dean1484 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It seems like they could avoid the sealed motor route if they just agreed on a max whp HP/TQ number lower than the stock motor is capable of and seal the tune/ECU that gets you there. Top 5 cars on the dyno after every race. EDIT: I don't think that was clear. There should be a HP and torque curve that is considered stock. If your motor varies from it by more than 10% you are not legal.

That gets you into NASA PT dyno reclassing weirdness with crazy built motors tuned to limit peak numbers with impossible curves leading up to them.

Simple enough to mandate HP and torque max numbers at say 4 different RPM points not just an over all max or max at a given max RPM.

That's a recipe to see some dyno curves looking like a sine wave.

And then you're back into the same issue we saw with NASA East this year.

That's why I'm running Street Modified now. No rules, baby.

if you take the time to read the rules... often times the over riding rule is... if it doesn't say you can do it... that means you can't.

Looks like they're following in this man's footsteps:

jstein77 wrote: That's why I'm running Street Modified now. No rules, baby.

Oh, there are still rules....mainly pertaining to weight reduction.

So, the offense as I understand is unshrouding valve area due to a (inadvertent or deliberate) machining operation.

I understand rules is rules especially in spec class but how much actual power can be had by this?

fasted58 wrote: So, the offense as I understand is unshrouding valve area due to a (inadvertent or deliberate) machining operation. I understand rules is rules especially in a spec class but how much power can actually be had by this?

and (assuming the modification added performance) now that these heads are illegal for SM, how many are out there and how cheaply can I buy one.

Since these cars are naturally aspirated...

have a spec head (stock). Heads should be readily available I'd think. Its easy enough to tell if compression has been changed due to pistons.

Boom, piece of cake.

HiTempguy wrote: Since these cars are naturally aspirated... have a spec head (stock). Heads should be readily available I'd think. Its easy enough to tell if compression has been changed due to pistons. Boom, piece of cake.

Problem is that 4 different motors are allowed in the series, and none of them have been made in a decade.

There are four different motors in SM right now. The oldest cars are now 25 years old. Sealed motors would be a nightmare solution for Mazda.

turboswede wrote: Draw cars out of a hat before quali. Then again before the race. Allow a practice session in between to allow for final adjustments to be made to suit the driver's style and fitment. If they are all spec cars, it shouldn't matter who's you drive, right?

Riiight. Especially in a race series nicknamed "Spec Pinata."

fasted58 wrote: So, the offense as I understand is unshrouding valve area due to a (inadvertent or deliberate) machining operation. I understand rules is rules especially in spec class but how much actual power can be had by this?

The offense they got caught with was unshrouded valves.... the offenses they are guilty of is FAR beyond that......

I got the story from Loynings... they were the engine builder to the FM driver who put up $14,000 to get the top teams checked, and disqualified... The deshouded valves was just the beginning

other ALLEGED differences were port work (no-no) and higher compression about 1/3 of a point higher.

the problem with a restrictor plate is its designed for full throttle operation... a restrictor plate typically means very little if you are in, and out of the throttle... in fact, some engine builders... when forced to work with a restrictor will often lose top end, but the restrictor makes the builder think... and often times he can make more power from the mid-range because he is forced to think of maximizing what he can build within....

I've got an 11:1 compression piston from a "Spec Miata" on my desk It's got a hole burned in it because stock engine management didn't work with it. No, we didn't build the engine.

There are a whole bunch of cheater parts for the series out there, some of which are technically legal but against the spirit of the rules, such as cams that meet specific specifications but are definitely not stock. I can only imagine what the engine shops that build this stuff can do.

Basil Exposition wrote:

turboswede wrote: Draw cars out of a hat before quali. Then again before the race. Allow a practice session in between to allow for final adjustments to be made to suit the driver's style and fitment. If they are all spec cars, it shouldn't matter who's you drive, right?

Riiight. Especially in a race series nicknamed "Spec Pinata."

Hey. We're just solving the cheating aspect of the sport. The BS punting that goes on is up to the drivers and the folks in charge of the race weekend. If they chose to let them punt each other off, then they are setting up a situation where there isn't any responsibility for their actions. There shouldn't be any punting going on, at least not on the scale of a Spec Miata race. If the rest of the racers can do it, why can't the Miata folks?