What to do when you buy a "track" car you decide to street drive instead?

I feel as though I have an affliction that this group has plenty of experience with: I have just a bit of a car addiction. While alcoholics go to AA to find support, I feel as though car-a-holics should probably join GRM. To kick off my latest conundrum, I should list off the current vehicles owned by my wife and I: 

-2008 BMW E82 128i 6MT w/Sport package (where this story begins)

-2008 Honda AP2 S2000 

-1996 Acura DC2 Integra GS-R

-2008 Nissan Xterra (my winter beater/kid hauler)

-2016 Dodge Challenger R/T 6.4L Scat Pack (my wife's daily/weekend car)

-2002 Chevrolet Suburban (wife's winter beater/kid hauler) 

***I should also note that I also have a work car provided to me by my employer, so I technically don't commute in the above-listed cars. 

I'm well aware that these are rookie numbers compared to some of the folks in this group, but figured I would give some context to my car situation. 

A few months back, I decided I wanted to get back into time trials/time attack. I don't want to use my S2000, as it is fairly pristine, relatively low miles, in a rare color (laguna blue), no accidents, clean Carfax, etc. Essentially, while I love the car, it's getting a bit too valuable for me to risk wadding it up on track- it would be hard to replace and is probably my only "forever" car. Not to mention I just don't have the heart to cut the car up and modify it to the point where I no longer enjoy it as a street car. 

I considered tracking my Integra GS-R, thinking I could potentially squeeze it into NASA TT6... but my last foray into FWD track car (in a 1988 CRX Si) left me wanting to go back to something RWD, preferably with ABS. My GS-R is modified, but it's also a very clean car, with relatively low miles for the year. Original owner had it for 20+ years and took very good care of it. The car was nearly bone stock when I bought it. I've modded it pretty extensively, but I don't feel like I've ruined it as a street car: power-wise it only has a Comptech header (CARB legal) and CT (formerly Comptech) Icebox (also CARB legal). I also swapped in a fully rebuilt Type R transmission (w/LSD) as I felt the OEM GS-R gearing was a bit too tall for the motor. The suspension was modified with a set of OEM Type R springs mated to a set of Koni yellow shocks, a Progress rear sway bar (OEM Type R sized, 22mm), I replaced all the bushings with Hardrace rubber and mounted up a set of Hardrace upper arms to it, so I can dial in the alignment based on my preferences. I've done all the maintenance on the car (primarily using OEM parts where I could source them) to make sure it runs extremely well. I autoX the car in a local league every once and a while, but that's not the car's sole purpose. Because I'm still on OEM exhaust (OEM cat & cat-back) and a set of OEM springs (from a Type R), the car is actually able to be street driven with ease and I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a road trip, as it's still pretty compliant and very usable as a street car. While I don't mind the occasional autoX in the DC2, I have also become painfully aware of just how difficult it is becoming to find a working B18C1 and how expensive they're becoming, which also has led to some hesitance about tracking the car. 

So, I searched all the usual sources for a cheap, RWD car I could build into a track car. I stumbled upon a 2008 BMW E82 128i 6MT w/sport package. While the body was okay, the car was in absolutely terrible shape. At least a handful of lights were on the dash, it wouldn't hardly drive in a straight line (nerve wracking just driving it home!), the gas gauge wasn't reading correctly, the interior was trashed (although not really torn or destroyed) and the engine had a low-end stutter/hesitation. I bought this car for a small fraction of what these cars should cost (the previous owner didn't want to take the time investigate all the problems with the car) and got to work. 

I replaced all the things on the E82: new water pump & thermostat (as preventative maintenance), new all aluminum CSF radiator (because track car), all the fluids/filters & serpentine belt, new fuel filter & fuel pump, new spark plugs and coil packs, rebuilt steering rack and pinion (that was the culprit for why the car wasn't driving straight), I picked up a few used (dirt cheap) modules off of eBay that cleared up all the dash lights, DMTL pump (oddly, the only real check engine light), new VANOS solenoids & TCT (more as preventative maintenance) and slapped on a set of OE M3/1M aluminum control arms... the result? It now drives like a brand new car! I also deep cleaned the interior and exterior, giving it the treatment it's former owner clearly neglected (although I suspect the owners before him actually took very good care of it). 

This has now landed me in an odd place: the E82 has now become my preferred mode of transportation pretty much everywhere. I love this car! It has a great combination of being comfortable, sporty (I love these seats!), smooth, playful and easy to drive! The shifter isn't as precise and engaging as my Honda's, but it's extremely smooth and easy to work in traffic. The A/C blows cold, the stereo sounds great and it's just a really enjoyable car to drive just about everywhere. And because the exterior wasn't treated with great care (plenty of surface imperfections), I have no problem taking the car anywhere, with no fear of hail, rain or door dings (which is something I can't really say about my S2000, which I keep hidden in the garage if there's a cloud in the sky). 

I wanted to get all the maintenance out of the way before I started on the mods for NASA TT5... but after doing all the maintenance, I've been hesitant to ruin the car as a street car, as I've found it's now the best street car I have. While talking to my wife (she's a borderline enabler), she also discouraged me from building the 128i for track duty, as it's become one of the most beloved cars we've ever owned to her. So much so, that it's the only car I've ever purchased that my wife likes so much, she talked about getting one for herself haha. 

I'm now thinking maybe I don't want to turn this lovely little E82 into a track car. Has anyone else ever ran into this "problem"? 

I'm now kicking around the idea I had when I found the E82: getting another NC Miata to turn into a track car. The NC now seems to be the "car to have" in SCCA TT S6 and I think I could probably make it competitive in NASA TT5 as well (with the new 14.5:1 p/w limits and lower penalty for having double wishbones), depending on which route I wanted to take it. 

My conundrum: do I add an NC to the fleet? Or sell one of my current vehicles to make space for an NC?

My Integra is still a fun, streetable car that I enjoy driving on occasion... but as a general rule, I prefer driving the BMW. However, it's summer time and I live in Colorado. The BMW is RWD with an open diff... the Integra is FWD with a LSD and a pretty much new set of (snow friendly) tires stacked up in the garage... I have a feeling the Integra will likely get more use in the winter. To be clear, if/when we get heavy snow, I take the Xterra, but I drove the Integra for the vast majority of this past winter, including in lighter snows... If I sold the Integra, with the amount of money I've invested into it, well, let's just say there's no hope of getting anywhere near the money I have invested into it, out of it... but on the other hand, that's one more car to maintain and pay for insurance (~$80/month for full coverage)/registration (~$80 year) on... I'm trying to decide if I should sell the Integra to buy an NC? Or just save up for 3-4 months to add an NC to the collection? 

At what point does "too many cars" actually become too many? Thoughts? Experiences? 

For reference, this is the E82 I managed to pick up for a song (along with countless hours of wrenching in the garage and a few thousand dollars worth of parts): 

Get another stock E82 for the wife and mod the one you currently have? That way she'll still have a nice street car and maybe you can use it sometimes too

GameboyRMH said:

Get another stock E82 for the wife and mod the one you currently have? That way she'll still have a nice street car and maybe you can use it sometimes too

That's not a bad idea! Funny, we actually kicked around the idea of getting another E82, using one of them for track work and keeping one of them as a nice, street car. 

For the record, she already has a nice street car: she has a Challenger Scat Pack. Like me, she likes having options, but as far as nice street cars go, I would say her Scat Pack is nicer than my E82 haha. Since she gets to work from home frequently, she has next to no miles on her Scat Pack (under 10,000 miles- we bought it from a gentleman that bought it new, garaged it and drove it less than ~300 miles over the course of the first few years of it's life). She likes my E82 a lot, but she absolutely LOVES her Scat Pack! The Scat Pack has an extra ~250hp more than my E82, is absolutely pristine and arguably a nicer, more modern interior. 

Part of the problem is that finding a clean, maintained E82 Coupe in a manual, with the Sport Package is not easy and not terribly cheap. Because mine had so many issues (which actually weren't terribly difficult to solve), I managed to get it for roughly 1/3rd of what it should have cost me. Granted, if I was going to continue modding this car, I could transfer the suspension and seats over to a non-sport car, so technically, I wouldn't "need" to find a Sport package car... but finding a clean, well-maintained 6MT E82 Coupe would likely cost me considerably more than just buying an NC1 Miata. It's my understanding that only about ~2.3% of these cars were sold with a manual... there are none for sale with a manual, locally (they rarely seem to pop up- I jumped on this one when I found it, immediately!). Doing a quick nationwide search only reveals a handful of them and they're all priced over $14,000+. By comparison, I've found several ~$7000 NC1's locally. From a financial standpoint, for a pure track car, an NC makes more sense, unless you stumble across a rare deal like I did- but I did spend countless hours in the garage fixing all the deferred maintenance items, so while it didn't hurt my wallet too badly (although BMW parts aren't cheap!), my lower back certainly felt the pain. 

And I should clarify, by E82, I'm only referring to the N52 powered 128i. Shockingly enough, the more powerful N54/N55 powered 135i's don't go for much more money... I'm not interested in an N54/N55 powered car, as they're seemingly less reliable, having the potential to really hurt your wallet if/when something goes wrong. Looking at the market, I would say quite a few folks feel the same way and have figured out that the 128i is a gem of a car. Essentially it's the last of the light-ish, NA inline-6 cars from BMW. No turbos, no direct injection (so no carbon buildup), just less weight, better balance and a very reliable power plant (that also happens to be plentiful and dirt cheap in the event you blow a motor). A lot of people on the BMW boards think of it as the natural successor of the old 2002tii or E30, which I would agree with. 

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

Not to hijack your thread, but I had no idea that the manual transmission was that rare on the E82 (128i).  I knew the combo of manual and no sunroof was rare, but apparently it's a lot more scarce than I thought.  

As for your conundrum, sounds like the Integra is the odd man out in your situation.  Would it be worth looking into using the proceeds of the Integra for buying into a rougher S2000 than what's already in your garage for track use? 

Puddy46 said:

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

Not to hijack your thread, but I had no idea that the manual transmission was that rare on the E82 (128i).  I knew the combo of manual and no sunroof was rare, but apparently it's a lot more scarce than I thought.  

As for your conundrum, sounds like the Integra is the odd man out in your situation.  Would it be worth looking into using the proceeds of the Integra for buying into a rougher S2000 than what's already in your garage for track use? 

Yep, finding a manual with no sunroof is even more of a unicorn! Having a slicktop is the only thing I would change about my E82, but they just can't be found! 

That's actually not a bad idea that I hadn't considered... a lot of the fast TT5 guys are running K24 swapped S2000's. From a long-term perspective, a K24 swapped S2000 makes sense in the event your motor eventually lets go. K24's are plentiful and cheap (and have a substantial mid-range torque advantage). The F20/F22 motors are getting scarce and very expensive. I've kicked around the idea of picking up a salvage title S2000, selling the stock F20/F22 and using the proceeds towards a K24 swap. The problem is even the salvage title S2000's are still a small fortune. Although I hadn't considered selling the Integra to buy one... hmmm. 

With today's Honda engine prices, there's no way I would consider tracking a stock powerplant S2000... one money-shift away from a ~$6000 mistake. That was part of what was appealing about tracking the N52 powered E82: they put that engine in everything, so motors are cheap and plentiful. With that said, that's also part of what's appealing about an NC: if the motor lets go, I've seen numerous 2.5L blocks go for under $500... and it's my understanding that KMiata is currently developing a K-swap kit for the NC... which, having owned 2 S2000's and an NC, for a track car, if running the same motor (presumably a K24), the NC is likely the better place to start: the NC is ~300 lbs lighter than an AP2, with slightly higher chassis rigidity, almost no loss of interior space, better feeling hydraulic steering and comes with OEM aluminum control arms (I hate fighting rust on old cars!). The S2000 has a slightly better weight distribution (it's certainly more eager to rotate) and has more room in the engine bay, but at the expense of 300 lbs worth of weight. In stock form, the S2000 is more fun to drive, but for track work, I'm not so convinced it's the better weapon when power is equalized. 

For purposes of a TT5 build, it seems like it used to be a fight between the BMW's (E46 and E36) and the S2000's. Nationally, it seemed like whenever I saw someone build an E82, it was competitive. Having driven all the BMW's (E36, E46 and E82), I'm convinced the E82 is the better handling machine and the N52 certainly has more power potential than the older M5x-series motors, with similar weights (admittedly, the E36 is a bit lighter). I'm about 99% sure the reason why the E82 hasn't been as competitive as the E36/E46 is due to a lack of aftermarket (by comparison) and the fact that E36/46 cars can be found for less money, and easier to find with a manual. Now that NASA lowered the p/w limits (from 14.0 down to 14.5) and also lowered the penalty for having double wishbones, I think the S2000 will be more competitive... but I also think a 2.5L swapped NC could easily be built to the new p/w limits and potentially compete with S2000's. I'm actually shocked more of them haven't been built... my only guess is that nationally, a lot of folks with K24 S2000's running Gridlife (Club TR) also run in NASA, and until a K-swap kit is completed for the NC, it won't be as popular in Gridlife CTR.

Either way, in a p/w limited class, I think there's a good case to be made for the NC with a cheap 2.5L swap, assuming I wanted to build a NASA TT5 car... for a cheap, competitive option, the NC can be built for SCCA TT Sport 6 for very little cash and is absolutely the "car to have" for that class, now that they kicked out the Toyobaru twins (I suppose an argument can be made for the heavier RX-8). Which is why the NC came to my mind before another S2000, even if I do love the S2000: it just seems like a cost-effective option. 

GameboyRMH said:

Get another stock E82 for the wife and mod the one you currently have? That way she'll still have a nice street car and maybe you can use it sometimes too

This sounds like the answer to me. :)

Sell the Integra, get a NC Miata and drive the Xterra when the weather is crap..............problem solved.

TL/DR

Only 6 cars brother? We are here to help that problem.

preach said:

TL/DR

Only 6 cars brother? We are here to help that problem.

I appreciate your support, brother! 

Tom1200 said:

Sell the Integra, get a NC Miata and drive the Xterra when the weather is crap..............problem solved.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. If I would have left the Integra alone, I would have been able to easily get my money back out of it (bought it for a fair price).... I'm an idiot, spent way too much cash on it and the thought of losing all aforementioned cash still hurts. I knew better and did it anyway. Story of my life. 

roninsoldier83 said:

Tom1200 said:

Sell the Integra, get a NC Miata and drive the Xterra when the weather is crap..............problem solved.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. If I would have left the Integra alone, I would have been able to easily get my money back out of it (bought it for a fair price).... I'm an idiot, spent way too much cash on it and the thought of losing all aforementioned cash still hurts. I knew better and did it anyway. Story of my life. 

Of course you're an idiot.............you play with cars and you ask us for advice..........I'm mean aren't we all pretty much idiots here.............if not idiots perhaps not mentally competent.

I did this with my D-Sports Racer; spent a bunch of money then got Pesos on the dollar in return; as a car nut one has to do this at least once..........falls under painful lessons we must learn on our own.

TL;DR

The last time I had track focused car as a DD, I ended up selling it. Only put 1k miles on it in a year.

z31maniac said:

TL;DR

The last time I had track focused car as a DD, I ended up selling it. Only put 1k miles on it in a year.

OP has like 6 cars and a work truck. Think itll be hard to TRY to get 1k miles on any of them in a year.

OP,

Coming here for your car addiction is like an alcoholic going to the bar for support.

preach said:

TL/DR

Only 6 cars brother? We are here to help that problem.

gotta pump those numbers up

Joining GRM when you have too many cars is like moving to Michigan if you like to get high every night. You're just going to end up with more drugs and somehow the ones we have at GRM are cheaper and better than the ones you're used to.

Tom1200 said:

roninsoldier83 said:

Tom1200 said:

Sell the Integra, get a NC Miata and drive the Xterra when the weather is crap..............problem solved.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. If I would have left the Integra alone, I would have been able to easily get my money back out of it (bought it for a fair price).... I'm an idiot, spent way too much cash on it and the thought of losing all aforementioned cash still hurts. I knew better and did it anyway. Story of my life. 

Of course you're an idiot.............you play with cars and you ask us for advice..........I'm mean aren't we all pretty much idiots here.............if not idiots perhaps not mentally competent.

I did this with my D-Sports Racer; spent a bunch of money then got Pesos on the dollar in return; as a car nut one has to do this at least once..........falls under painful lessons we must learn on our own.

Brother, I wish I could say this was the only time I've sank a bunch of cash into a car that deep down inside I knew I was probably going to sell eventually... it's the first time this year for sure! 

Olemiss540 said:

z31maniac said:

TL;DR

The last time I had track focused car as a DD, I ended up selling it. Only put 1k miles on it in a year.

OP has like 6 cars and a work truck. Think itll be hard to TRY to get 1k miles on any of them in a year.

OP,

Coming here for your car addiction is like an alcoholic going to the bar for support.

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

My wife got me to realize I should keep cars after I get them sorted.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Ironically, my wife is pushing me towards keeping the Integra, saving up a bit more cash and adding another car (NC Miata) to the fleet. She's concerned that if I sell the Integra, come winter time, I'll start making excuses to look for another "fun" car that's more winter focused. She might be onto something. She also might be an enabler. 

Who needs a winter focused fun car when you have a set of snow tires for the BMW?

In reply to Olemiss540 :

Fair point. Over the past few days I may or may not have been watching Youtube videos of RWD E82/E90 BMW's on snow tires... 

"$80/mo for car insurance..."

Take that unnecessary distraction out of the equation. Get insurance with an app (Progressive, Geico come to mind) and add and remove cars the very minute you're getting into the driver's seat or getting out.
 

My .02, serious questions, not sarcasm: you paid good money for the integra and no one will give it back to you in cash, right? How then are you planning to redeem that sunk cost? By keeping it and driving it sometimes? Will the experience of driving it make the cost of parts even out sometime? Or what is the ideal plan there?

In reply to P3PPY :

As far as insurance goes, we have everything bundled via a State Farm agent. About once a year I call around to shop for all the insurance things and I can't find anywhere cheaper (homeowners, etc included) than State Farm. Unfortunately, I have to call them anytime I want to make a change... I'll look into a more flexible policy, but with our current setup, there's not much of a convenient option. We also only have 3 of our cars in the garage, the other 3 sleep outside, which poses another problem, as we do get hail in the spring and summertime. 

That's a valid point. I will never get my money back from the Integra. However I've had the car under 2 years. From a logical perspective, it's irrelevant. Either I take a loss now, or I take a loss one day when I decide to sell it. With that said, I certainly haven't "gotten my money's worth" so to speak. Like most of us, I have no problem spending money on life experiences. The experience I've received thus far certainly hasn't been what I would subjectively deem enough to warrant the money spent. So yeah, if I kept it, I suppose it would be more feelings based, attempting to get my moneys worth out of it, based on additional experiences. 

I think I've owned somewhere around ~37 vehicles in my lifetime. Most of them, I purchase right and generally break even, or sell for at least a small profit... there's only been 4-5 where I spent too much on modifications (or bought wrong) that really threw money down the drain with. Right now, I could probably sell my Xterra for considerably more than I bought it for (maybe close to double)... the S2000 is likely worth $8000+ more than I bought it for... and I could easily sell the BMW for more than what I've put into it... but there's no way I can come close to getting my money out of the Integra. Man, do I hate losing money, even if it is likely inevitable. 

I don't know if there's really a plan on getting my moneys worth. This is a more recent idea I'm hashing out and looking for advise from the fine folks here at GRM- to which, I appreciate the additional perspectives! 

As someone with a clean 98 DC2 and manual 128i...

K swap the Integra, I sold my bone stock B18c1 for a good amount. It's currently a TT5 car, but full interior and A/C. Not sure how far I'm wanting to take it. But it's competitive enough to win tires with the cars currently in my region.

The 128i is a great DD. I'll probably only do the basics. LSD, and coilovers to fit wider wheels, and that's about it... Oh and a sunroof plug whenever it finally shows up.

In reply to Blackhalo :

I'll be honest, while that's not a bad idea, my regional TT5 is very competitive. Our regional champion is Tim Roberts in an E46 330i... last year he took 3rd at Nationals, missing 1st by about 0.8 seconds. I know FWD cars get a bit of a power bump, but I'm honestly not convinced TT5 can be won nationally (or in my region) with a FWD Honda. I don't aspire to winning a national championship, but I would like to be competitive regionally and our region is pretty stacked. 

My last FWD time attack build was in a 1988 CRX Si that I built for SCCA T5 (that could dual as an STS car)... most of my experience on track has been with S2000's and Miata's... I preferred the driving dynamics of a RWD car. So, I'm hesitant to do a full track build on my DC2. 

I am curious though- what are you running for wheels/tire sizes on your DC2? 

roninsoldier83 said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

Ironically, my wife is pushing me towards keeping the Integra, saving up a bit more cash and adding another car (NC Miata) to the fleet. She's concerned that if I sell the Integra, come winter time, I'll start making excuses to look for another "fun" car that's more winter focused. She might be onto something. She also might be an enabler. 

You don't need to get the money back on the Integra becuase you have won the Wife Lotto.