Which Toyobaru is best Toyobaru?

Knurled. said:

If automatics are so bad, then how easy/expensive is it to change the manual trans on a regular basis because crashing synchros is preferable to trying to push a clutch down?

 

edit - Yeah I'm salty over the idea that you aren't allowed to be an auto enthusiast unless you have a full range of motion over all four limbs

I personally am not a MUST BE MANUAL person, with the caivat that it depends on the transmission. DSG, PDK, ZF 8 or 10 speeds, DCT are probably all acceptable, but for most automatics, they don't do what I WANT them to do. I would probably drive my current golf more on track if it was a DSG. 

Full disclosure: The only automatic I have owned is a 2001 Beetle that has been caged and intended to be a Lemons racing car, and eventually manual-swapped.

Knurled. said:

If automatics are so bad, then how easy/expensive is it to change the manual trans on a regular basis because crashing synchros is preferable to trying to push a clutch down?

9

edit - Yeah I'm salty over the idea that you aren't allowed to be an auto enthusiast unless you have a full range of motion over all four limbs

If you want an auto 86, then get an auto 86. If you are on the fence, the stick is THAT much better than the automatic.  I've driven both and did not care for the slushbox. You might love it, who knows?

Knurled. said:

If automatics are so bad, then how easy/expensive is it to change the manual trans on a regular basis because crashing synchros is preferable to trying to push a clutch down?

 

edit - Yeah I'm salty over the idea that you aren't allowed to be an auto enthusiast unless you have a full range of motion over all four limbs

So let's get off our high horse and talk about the numbers...

The automatic is a $750, and $1,100 dollar option in the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ respectively. Included in this, is the older 200 horsepower engine with the old intake manifold, and engine calibration. Additionally, you are only given the less sought after 4.1 FD as opposed the the 4.3 FD. Here's how it affects performance (source C&D instrumented testing): 

     -The automatic 86 weighs ~57 lbs more than the manual version. In a car that weighs 2,700 lbs, that is a decent increase. 

     -The automatic is a staggering 1.5 seconds slower from 0-60  than the manual (6.2 seconds vs. 7.7 seconds)

     -Braking performance increases 4 ft compared to the manual (70-0 mph)

     -The automatic 86 traps 4 mph slower than the manual in the standing 1/4 mile

     -The automatic 86 is 1.3 seconds slower than the manual in the standing 1/4 mile

     -The automatic 86 reported a .01 G deficit compared to the manual

To recap: 

So what do you get for your $1,000+? You get a demonstrably worse vehicle. You get an inferior engine, you get miles worse straightline performance, you get lower resale, you get higher vehicle weigh, and you get worse braking. I'm not telling people to stop buying automatics, I'm telling people to stop buying the GT86 in automatic. 

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15088907/2017-toyota-86-automatic-test-review/

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15099022/2017-subaru-brz-manual-test-review/

In reply to goingnowherefast :

Those sound like good tradeoffs to me in order to have a car I don't have to think about if I can drive it that day or not.

Honestly it sounds like a final drive ratio change would do wonders for the auto. Pretty sure Robert Stangarone's has a 4.55 or so, granted that's with a Sprintex supercharger.

What rearend is in it?  There's a Frisbee here for service and I was poking around underneath it since it's the first time I'd seen one up close aside from in parking lots.  The rear diff doesn't look like anything Hitachi that I am familiar with.

Since the rear suspension looks like they ganked it wholesale from the Impreza, it might also make a good upgrade for WRX modders who do not want to pay the R180 tax.

(Minor gripe:  Shifter's manual gate is backwards, forward-upshift/back-downshift.  Gripe because even after 43k of living with a shifter like that, I mis-shifted yesterday and grabbed 4th when I wanted 6th because I didn't have the brainspace to be able to devote to moving the shifter reversed)

Knurled. said:

(Minor gripe:  Shifter's manual gate is backwards, forward-upshift/back-downshift.  Gripe because even after 43k of living with a shifter like that, I mis-shifted yesterday and grabbed 4th when I wanted 6th because I didn't have the brainspace to be able to devote to moving the shifter reversed)

Unfortunately most auto-tragic boxes not in super high end models have the shifter directions backwards from what they're supposed to be.